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I'm amazed...


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I continue to be amazed by the stupidity of some wings of the MTA community. When VC .2 was released, in came the Stubby Shotgun and it's been downgraded, complained about and griped over. Not about the weapon persay so much as about the glitching with it. When Portland was first released, they left in the insta-kill with cars, and carn00bing was born. So be it, whatever, everyone pretty much agrees that that's more or less lame ass play to do nothing but car kill. So be it...

I'm starting to see a new plague entering into Shoreside Vale servers (Or perhaps it's all GTA III servers, I don't know, I mostly play Shoreside) the instant a flamethrower comes out, people start yelling noob and complaining. Some servers are even threatening to kick or ban for having one. While this in and of itself is a silly rule, let's look at a little bigger picture, shall we?

There are *2* instances in which I could get a flamethrower without BUYING one or SPAWNING with one (Buying and Spawning with them may violate this silly "No flamers" rule, so I don't do it) BUT... Let's look at the other two ways that are OUTSIDE my control to get a Flamethrower...

1) Someone else comes in and buys or spawns with one.. *I* certainly didn't violate their rule, yet I can kill them and get a Flamer that way

2) Grand Theft Auto misions.. I have NO control whatsoever over what reward weapon that mission drops for me, do I? There's way #2 I can get a flamer without buying or spawning with it. Am I just supposed to ignore my reward and leave all that money lying there for fear of accidentally stumbling over the Flamer pickup? I think not

How can anyone enforce this no flamers rule? When I was asked and presented reasons, I was told "Wanna bet? I will ban you" in essence.

A rule against Car Killing, I can understand, a rule against flamers is just silly. Since a majority of the GTA III population seems to rely on the shotgun, is it not understandable if the OTHER close range weapon shows up? If I have a flamer in my inventory by way of one of the above 2 methods, am I supposed to very carefully scroll past that while I've got some shotgunner bouncing around me like a ninny, perhaps miss a shot and get killed so that I don't violate this rediculous rule?

First it was the Stubby (I've heard more arguments on this then I would care to count), then car killing (Which I actually agree with and IS enforceable, everybody can spot a chronic car killer from a mile away, their actions are always the same), now Flamethrowers...

I've heard it said before, but it bears repeating.. "Next thing ya know we'll be spawning with nothing but a bat and a colt!"

If you don't like the flamethrower, perhaps you should stay out of close range? Or is your reliance on sole use of the shotgun so overpowering that you have no clue on how to use the other weapons effectively? It's a weapon in the game, I say it's perfectly legit.. It has some dangerous potential, but then again, so does the shotgun you're bouncing around me with.. So should I start trying to get the rules passed that say "No shotguns!" in the various servers I visit?

Until they have some way of being able to switch off and on what weapons are available in the game, this rule is nonsense

Yes, I'm talking about YOU and you know who you are (The lot of you)

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people whining about weapons... and trying to take out those things theyre weak against

this isnt a new issue

helicopters

spaz

stubby

m60

grenades

molotovs

cars

all have been whined about, alot. and im sure theres more that im not thinking of atm

its the noobs who refuse to learn to play against them and instead try and take them out in the name of "fun" that ruin the game

gg losaz

-edit

i remember the one i was forgeting now!

the vc flamethrower.. thats right its not a new issue its a quite old one

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I started playing GTA3 on PartyServer under an alias and I was catching shit for using the flame thrower.

It's a weapon in the game. No matter how you get it it's legal. I'll spawn with it everytime, why not.

Even car killing is legal, but I realize how cheap it seems so I avoid it... but I don't kick ppl for it.

Even AK is kinda frowned on... It comes from the fact that you only get credit for kills if you are closest to the person.

Another annoyance is ppl complaining because you "interferred" in thier fight... welcome to MTA I'd say. Im just glad I am an admin on that server or I would be banned by now.

(you are an admin there too Loen ;) )

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The difference between carkills in VC and GTA3 is not intentional. It's how the game handles vehicle/player collision.

As it is now, the flamethrower is overpowered, and it's damage wasn't changeable, but was still too fun to be left out completely. We may have found a method to balance it, but it still awaits proper testing.

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all that springs to my mind is... on what lame servers are you playing loendal? o_O

i havent seen a server with such a rule yet but its sad that ppl take out all weapons that could beat a shotgun

I'm going to try and avoid pointing direct fingers.. But I've seen at least 3 different gang's members gripe about it.. And an "entire" gang creating a server and applying that rule along with a No Carkills rule. They know who they are. It's a pity too, it's a nice ping server.

its the noobs who refuse to learn to play against them and instead try and take them out in the name of "fun" that ruin the game

There will always be complainers, I've come to accept that and server admins can run their servers as they choose, but when I've seen it on a few different servers now (The complaining and crying of "noob", not the rule) I'm worried it's going to become an epidemic.. Which I don't want to see happen. I've already had to give up on VC till things are fixed, I don't want to lose GTA III also.

I started playing GTA3 on PartyServer under an alias and I was catching shit for using the flame thrower.

It's a weapon in the game. No matter how you get it it's legal. I'll spawn with it everytime, why not.

Even car killing is legal, but I realize how cheap it seems so I avoid it... but I don't kick ppl for it.

Even AK is kinda frowned on... It comes from the fact that you only get credit for kills if you are closest to the person.

Another annoyance is ppl complaining because you "interferred" in thier fight... welcome to MTA I'd say. Im just glad I am an admin on that server or I would be banned by now.

(you are an admin there too Loen Wink )

I dont' know what alias you're under and I won't be stupid enough to ask you out loud on here, just to save your anonimity, but you've seen it then. So you are aware of the situation, and perhaps even who the culprits are. Perhaps you're there more then I, does it look like it's spreading? And yes, I'm an admin on there too (Thank you) but I'm still slowly piecing together who's cheating and what to look for, whiners are annoying and I've been known to start up a !votekick on it to let the server decide so you won't get crys of "Admin abuse" in your ear.

And "Welcome to MTA!" is my line, no fair stealing it ;) And I've also got a [tm] on "There are no teams unless you make them up yourself" on VC servers ;)

And on the subject of teams.. Do people not realize that SSV is a team based system? Gah.. I hate seeing Yakuza spawn wars. * procedes to the next quote *

The difference between carkills in VC and GTA3 is not intentional. It's how the game handles vehicle/player collision.

As it is now, the flamethrower is overpowered, and it's damage wasn't changeable, but was still too fun to be left out completely. We may have found a method to balance it, but it still awaits proper testing.

I had thought that, but I belive I was told early on in Portland's release that it was a choice made to leave the insta-kill in, as it could have been turned off. It's still cheap shit though when that's all you do, like I said, everyone more or less agrees on that. ESPECIALLY in Shoreside, it's just plain silly. Money is SO easy to come by, WHY be a chronic car killer unless you're just out to be an asshole? I can get 2 full clips of Uzi, a pack of shotgun shells and a flamethrower to match my AK in less then 5 minutes from spawning, this isn't rocket science folks!

The only way I could think to balance the flamer (if it seems to need it) is make it a non-choice for spawning with, and have it only purchaseable instead, like in Portland. Or perhaps leave it as it is and lower the ammo, since the damage can't be adjusted. Personally, I don't think it really NEEDS adjustment. Yes, it's dangerous, but what does one expect a ball of flaming gas to be? ;)

Yay, i hope you can balance it.

I'm quite happy with people using it, but as it is at the moment, with its great availability - it is way too overpowered.

I don't really have a response for you, Mike, but I didn't want you to feel left out of the quote-lovin' ;) Borrow from my quote for trx, it's along the same lines :lol:

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  • MTA Team
The difference between carkills in VC and GTA3 is not intentional. It's how the game handles vehicle/player collision.

As it is now, the flamethrower is overpowered, and it's damage wasn't changeable, but was still too fun to be left out completely. We may have found a method to balance it, but it still awaits proper testing.

I think its quite easy to hit someone with the weapon. The thing is, once they do your hp goes through the floor. If you are playing someone who isnt a newbie, you dont get many chances to kill them unless you are extremely careful with a pistol or uzi. Cause they sure as hell wont let you attack from a distance, as long as they can reach you.

I never fight close combat in the open with these guys unless I feel like a long, boring, drawn out challenge. They can chase me to somewhere with a car, so I can get in, drive a little bit, and get back out undamaged, before the car explodes. Else use my extraordinary car noobing skills incase I get tired of the flaming whores.

A neat secret to beating this is fighting on hills. They can flame away, but they are gonna just flame through the ground, while your bullets go diagonal.

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I know exactly what you are talking about loendal. The [ACK] or anti carkillers. Technically I think the flamer is allowed but not excessive. I am a level 5 admin there so I will talk to them about it. I know blaze the leader. He just got fed up one day on the partyserver and made ACK because carkilling was big once kungfu announced it was legal. I think they have heard so much of get your own server and put a no carkilling rule there, so they did it. If they allowed carkilling, there clan would be meaningless. Fire should be ok when ill talk to them but not excessive. Also to reply to your post kung about them getting mad about 1 on 1's, they were used to it in the partyserver cause it was happening there. i'm guessing they adopted this idea of 1 on 1's at sight.

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I know exactly what you are talking about loendal. The [ACK] or anti carkillers. Technically I think the flamer is allowed but not excessive. I am a level 5 admin there so I will talk to them about it. I know blaze the leader. He just got fed up one day on the partyserver and made ACK because carkilling was big once kungfu announced it was legal. I think they have heard so much of get your own server and put a no carkilling rule there, so they did it. If they allowed carkilling, there clan would be meaningless. Fire should be ok when ill talk to them but not excessive. Also to reply to your post kung about them getting mad about 1 on 1's, they were used to it in the partyserver cause it was happening there. i'm guessing they adopted this idea of 1 on 1's at sight.

Excessive is a relative term, and if I've gotten the "illegal" weapon by means other then direct choice (i.e. GTA or Killing someone with one) how can I be held responsible for the "excesiveness"? Not my fault I killed the guy with the flamer 17 times and haven't crashed / died yet.. I've got quite a stockpile of ammo now.. (I think it would be around 255 if I never used the flamer in a fight) Do we see the logic I'm getting at here?

I fully agree on the stance on Carkilling, and Kung's rejection of "Leave us alone while we fight!" (If you're in game, you're a target [tm]). But there is no effective way to police the weapons in the game.

And as a side note, I generally don't spawn with the Flamer or even particularly use it much unless I've got a lagger I'm against somewhere. I prefer my dandy little AK47 and a decent supply of Uzi ammo ;)

So I'm not so much pro-flamer as I am anti-silly-unenforceable-rules

* points to MP5's Inbox *

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As DeathB said, most people complaining about the flamethrower or cars are idiots. Whine about the flamethrower, then why not whine about the shotgun because it can kill you on the floor?

One thing I have experienced lately, is that most car killers are complete idiots without a clue of what thei're doing.. This is ironic really, I spend 30 minutes on a server holding the highest score (just an example of what hapened in the past) and when I decide to car kill once, I get 4 people in a row. Noobish? I think not..

And people seem to complain about the car kills specialy from behind.. Apparently they don't take it too well from behind :roll::lol: ..

We may have found a method to balance it, but it still awaits proper testing.

I was afraid of that. More power to the hungry "honourable people that don't use flamers or cars and don't atack from behind" .. :roll:

Then why don't we also complain about the uzi users? Without jumping they create uber desync (be it missing or getting shot on other people's screen but not on the person) and become annoying to hit even without jumping..

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  • MTA Team

i dont have much of a problem with carkills, but i do get pissed off like anyone else

as for flamethrowers, they are unbalanced how they are. i liked the way they were in portland. the best wa to solve this is to remove the ability to spawn with it, and increase the price in ammunation since its so easy to gain money in ssv.

also, the uzi power needs to be INCREASED. currently, and when i tested properly, its very easy to kill an uzi user with simply a pistol. even with its rate of fire, the uzi

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The unofficial rule where ppl are excessively carkilling or flaming is stupid too...

If something is legal it can't be illegal if done too often. If someone carkills all of the time feel free to socially pressure them to fight with guns but don't use the admin

The 1 on 1 situation in GTA3 is laughable

there are 4 spawns and everyone spawns Yazuaka so if you want to have a 1 on 1 just spawn columbian. It's all the same weapons so it makes no difference.

And flamethrower isn't too powerful and unbalanced if everyone can use it. it's only unbalanced if you refuse to use it against them.

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  • MTA Team
And flamethrower isn't too powerful and unbalanced if everyone can use it. it's only unbalanced if you refuse to use it against them.

i have to disagree with that...just because every1 can use it doesnt necessarily mean its not unbalanced.

in an ideal mta scm:

uzi = ak = shotgun = flamethrower (by that i mean by using the guns weaknesses)

but here are my ratings of 'power'

uzi: 1/2

pistol: 1/2

ak: 2

shotgun: 2

flamethrower: 4.

^^thats my judgement, and u may think i havent thought it thru well, because i havent that much. NOTE: i stick with my point with the pistol being too similar to the uzi, uzi power NEEDS to be increased

if u dont think thats right, i hope you agree with this: its just too easy to kill with the flamethrower, its almost as if u just go up to sum1, tap the fire button with no accuracy whatsoever, and they're basically dead.

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if u dont think thats right, i hope you agree with this: its just too easy to kill with the flamethrower, its almost as if u just go up to sum1, tap the fire button with no accuracy whatsoever, and they're basically dead.

So what youre saying is.. That the flamethrowers range should be reduced?

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I agree with that it should only be avaiable on shops, but stating that it's as simple as pressing the fire button to hit and drain people's hp with fire, that's wrong. The lag of the flamethrower is hard to work out, you waste about 3 ammo to hit someone because of the lag..

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  • MTA Team
I think some people are misunderstanding 'balance'. Balance does not mean making every weapon the same as the others.

im not sure how u think of it bump, but i think 'balance' is when all guns weight the same ie have their advatages and disadvantages.

blokker: i dont want the flamethrower to be edited, it wudnt work. i suggest simply removing the ability to spawn with it and increasing the price in ammunation.

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yeah i wouldnt mind an m16 for $10000 or $20000 (or more if you want)

i almost never spend any money in ssv and after like 30-60 mins im on $100000 w/o any clue on what to spend my cash, i usually buy then as much uzi ammo until it goes infinite but i really would like more weapons to be in gta3, m16, nades, molotovs and maybe even an unscoped sniper

imagine nades on a dododuel :shock:

t3h pwn

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  • MTA Team

yeh the money system has gone from scarce to generous, with the things that you felt a need to buy going down also.

The balance of flame is a lil off I believe, I know I can get more kills with flamethrower than any other weapon easily. It works great for most situations, especially lag. However, it still drains a little too much HP I believe.

Even though with all that bashing I did, it still has two enemies

1. Hilly terrain (as it only goes straight forward)

2. shotgun (if lag takes this option out, go to option 1)

... and so therefore I can live with it. It should be reduced a bit on the drainage thing I think however.

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Well, flamethrowers are supposed to cause damage on the adversary.. :roll: . Considering the lag in this version and how crashes can make you lose your money, I'd say it should only be buyable but for 2500 instead of 3000..

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As I said elsewhere:

Then there are decisions to be made relating to balance, again due to VC not being created with multiplayer in mind the weapons have a vast differential in Damage per second and theres differing opinions in the team. I feel its best to leave the weapons standard and build the game design around it, others feel its best to tweak the damages, ranges and rate of fire to suit a pre-decided game style. Both have pros and cons and yet again the magic of Beta is we can try both in different versions then decide later which is better.

The same applies to GTA3

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