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The stubby isn't fixed


Zircon

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0.5 VCDM is a failure...

I enjoy DM more now, because it does not crash every other time I respawn. It is better.

It is a failure compared to what it needs to be, I agree. :?

The high action moments of stubby fights, is really nothing more then RANDOM shooting, and hoping you hit. IMO What is so fun about that?

The police shotty has always faired ok against other types. It certainly is not so dominate against m60 ect. It feels about right. If the stubby was truely fixed and balanced, it would give all the other character types a fighting chance.

the MTA team did a good job, just not a perfect job. But I still got faith in em. :wink:

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I think they shoulda just reduced the damage,kept the 0.3 glitch out,and left the jump...i dont get why they took the jump out,what was so wrong about jumping? It was better then warping around where you cant even hit people...stubby is like an art to people like me,you work on it forever,you perfect it,you show it off...i really dont think i would play MTA if there were no stubby,im so damn attatched to it.

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The stubby is only fixed in damage and jumping. The only problem I have is that the majority of players are still using the shotgun.(both) This damage reducing happened so everything could be fair and so people wouldn't stop using it that much. In my opinion the the stubby being reduced only succeded by very little.

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I'm not sure what the deal with the stubby is, but we'll certainly be looking into it very soon.

eAi

It doesn't take any genius to figure it out...

0.4.x weapon.mta:

StubbyShotgun   INSTANT_HIT 15.0  250  750  1    120 -1.0 -1.0  -1.0   -1.0	0.55 -0.02	0.13	buddy       14 50 15 	14 56 15	56		279 -1 	  20040		4

We see here that value X, "point in anim where we can breakout of anim/attack and run away," which controls how early in the shooting animation you can switch weapons, is set to 56. This prevents you from switching weapons before the animation loop end, which is also set to 56. This is why switching before the stubby reloading animation played was impossible in 0.4.x.

0.5 weapon.mta:

StubbyShotgun   INSTANT_HIT 15.0  250  750  1    60 -1.0 -1.0  -1.0   -1.0	0.55 -0.02	0.13	buddy       14 50 15 	14 56 15	11		279 -1 	  200		4

Now, look at value X. It's set to 11 instead, which is lower than value R, the loop animation start, set at 14. This makes it possible to switch before the shooting animation even plays.

How do we fix this? Simply change 11 back to 56, like it was in 0.4.x.

How it should be:

StubbyShotgun   INSTANT_HIT 15.0  250  750  1    60 -1.0 -1.0  -1.0   -1.0	0.55 -0.02	0.13	buddy       14 50 15 	14 56 15	56		279 -1 	  200		4

This line would make it impossible to crouch while firing and jump or switch after firing. Don't believe me? Put that in your weapon.dat, start up SP, get a stubby, and test away.

Sorry eAi, but whoever was in charge of editing the weapon stats didn't know what he was doing.

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Honestly, I don't have any troubles with how the shotgun is atm., it's better than having the jumping in it and having people who use the run/crouch glitch, I like it the way it is now, it takes people to learn about more on the stubby (imo), also I see a lot of people (at least on the Dutch servers - which I play on the most) who say the Stubby 'sucks' now and they're trying out other characters (FINALLY!), haven't had much spawn wars so far - ain't playing that much neither atm, mostly at Stunt mode... But I really like to see people using other characters instead of Robber, so I can finally stand a chance with another character as well instead of spawning as (eg) a mexican and walking into the arms of 3 or 4 robbers and being ground...

Wouldn't mind the jumping being back in it and the weapon-switch thingy out it again, wouldn't mind it a bit, as long as the damage stays as low as it is right now, it makes the fights a bit nicer imo...

Would love to see Mexican as first choice in the character select again, think that's the reason why most people spawned as Robbers in the first place, without trying other characters first...

Anyway...

I like this release, hope a few bugs/glitches or sumthin will be fixed asap, but you guys (MTA team) did a nice job...

Thank you :) ...

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I dont see whats wrong with the stubby...i havent seen any "warping" problems that everyone is whining about.
1 a : to utter a high-pitched plaintive or distressed cry b : to make a sound similar to such a cry

2 : to complain with or as if with a whine

3 : to move or proceed with the sound of a whine

As you can see,its not for certain whether we are whining...i see it more as stating an opinion.

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I'm not sure what the deal with the stubby is, but we'll certainly be looking into it very soon.

eAi

It doesn't take any genius to figure it out...

0.4.x weapon.mta:

StubbyShotgun   INSTANT_HIT 15.0  250  750  1    120 -1.0 -1.0  -1.0   -1.0	0.55 -0.02	0.13	buddy       14 50 15 	14 56 15	56		279 -1 	  20040		4

We see here that value X, "point in anim where we can breakout of anim/attack and run away," which controls how early in the shooting animation you can switch weapons, is set to 56. This prevents you from switching weapons before the animation loop end, which is also set to 56. This is why switching before the stubby reloading animation played was impossible in 0.4.x.

0.5 weapon.mta:

StubbyShotgun   INSTANT_HIT 15.0  250  750  1    60 -1.0 -1.0  -1.0   -1.0	0.55 -0.02	0.13	buddy       14 50 15 	14 56 15	11		279 -1 	  200		4

Now, look at value X. It's set to 11 instead, which is lower than value R, the loop animation start, set at 14. This makes it possible to switch before the shooting animation even plays.

How do we fix this? Simply change 11 back to 56, like it was in 0.4.x.

How it should be:

StubbyShotgun   INSTANT_HIT 15.0  250  750  1    60 -1.0 -1.0  -1.0   -1.0	0.55 -0.02	0.13	buddy       14 50 15 	14 56 15	56		279 -1 	  200		4

This line would make it impossible to crouch while firing and jump or switch after firing. Don't believe me? Put that in your weapon.dat, start up SP, get a stubby, and test away.

Sorry eAi, but whoever was in charge of editing the weapon stats didn't know what he was doing.

I actually suggest perhaps adding 5 more to the time to switch (meaning that the animation should fully complete and then some) Reason: Unlike Nutz said, (which is full of shit, trying to blame the warping on someone with a 400 ping is ignorance) the warp will still occur (anyone want to look at the cop shotgun?) but only for a shorten period of time. (until the animation ends on the actor on your screen) Although the stubby downtime is still longer, the copshot is still highly effective with it's warp, though its aiming has some slight issues if I recall. A downtime of 5 should be more then enough to sync on someone who has the frame limiter capped. On top of that, crouching with all guns should be like the copshot. (I believe you simply can not crouch with the copshot, this should be the same with stubby) This leaves a few important glitches that still need to e fixed however.

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I love it

I hope they don't try to "fix" 0.5 I think it's fine

You have to consider the source on some of these opinions... Im shocked that ppl like Zircon with obsolete connections don't see warping all of the time.

The rest must have been used to the jump glitch. That has been the pet glitch of many players for a long time. Having shots leave from your toes is a glitch and I am glad it has been addressed. I think it's funny that the ppl who are so anti glitch want thier jump glitch back or the stubby gone. I have told eAi about some things that work in this version and I sure other have too. If that can be fixed great... If not I don't want to take thier valuable time fixing this version when they could be working on Blue...

If MTA can either sync or disable the crouch it would be helpful but we may have reached the limit of what is possible with this core.

Some ppl always complain when things change but they adapt or move on. This version will hold until Blue is ready I think.

Great Job MTA

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I love it

I hope they don't try to "fix" 0.5 I think it's fine

Because you prefer one glitch over another.

If switching and crouching was left out, yet jumping was allowed, you'd hate it.

You have to consider the source on some of these opinions... Im shocked that ppl like Zircon with obsolete connections don't see warping all of the time.
The only time I would see people warp (provided that they aren't switch or crouch glitching with a shotgun weapon) is if I or another player is experiencing major packet loss. That rarely happens for me, however, since I'm usually in the 200-300 ping range (at least before 0.5 released).
The rest must have been used to the jump glitch.
Wrong.

"The rest" are for all stubby glitches being taken out. If they love jumping so much, then they'd want switching/crouching and jumping put back in.

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i heard the m60 has been made weaker why take the distance away from the m60 in 0.4 then in 0.5 take the damage down aswell now it will b near impossable to kill a stubbyer with it.

In the 0.3 days the m60 was great to deal with stubbyers u had a chance to kill them now u might aswell dig ur own grave.

And for stubbys i dident have a problem with glitchs i just hated the stubby wars that went on in every server u got a whole city to use and no one used it.To sort that problem out is easy make the robber spawn all over the place.

That way it will b alot more fun hunting people down and killing them.

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Unlike Nutz said, (which is full of shit, trying to blame the warping on someone with a 400 ping is ignorance) the warp will still occur (anyone want to look at the cop shotgun?) but only for a shorten period of time.

I don't see (low ping) players warping in stubby wars in 0.5. So what is the problem?

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"The rest" are for all stubby glitches being taken out. If they love jumping so much, then they'd want switching/crouching and jumping put back in.

I would love to see all glitches taken out, BUT the proper way, by disabling the unnecessary

animations, not by negatively affecting gameplay by forcing everyone to be a sitting

duck for a second after firing a shot.

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And for stubbys i dident have a problem with glitchs i just hated the stubby wars that went on in every server u got a whole city to use and no one used it.To sort that problem out is easy make the robber spawn all over the place.

That way it will b alot more fun hunting people down and killing them.

I agree

Or give a stubby or shotgun to the Crusader too

I noticed that either the damage or sync is improved on melee weapons... Katana, Bat ect.. all are better

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The crusader is one spawn around a nice area... 100 health/armor...

it would merely become the next elite robber spawn.

It feels like there should just be 4 spawns, if the stubby is taken out. I think things are okay right now, but a little tweaking could help a LOT.

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Ok, i know the MTA team have made most of these changes to stop glitching and make it more funs for noobs, but think about this, some1 downloads MTA and starts it up, they select the robber and wot will they see...... a load of fat ginger fags runnin at high speed killing them in seconds. How freaked out is that guy gonna be? At least in 0.4.1 they had a chance, they could press jump and hopefully not get knocked to the ground.

And any1 who thinks this 0.3 style running and shooting is ok has obviously never seen some1 runnin' software to make there game faster whilst doin it....not a pretty sight.

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I don't see (low ping) players warping in stubby wars in 0.5. So what is the problem?

that's funny, I've played with a low ping and I see it shitloads.. then again, all I've seen from KFC (aside from a few individuals, Mex, Nika, etc) are a bunch of crouch glitchers in 0.4 including yourself, which means you're probaly use to the effect of it, however illegitimate it is. On top of that, I know the instant second shot still exists with breaking the animation and firing again, so don't give me the glitch free shit.

I would love to see all glitches taken out, BUT the proper way, by disabling the unnecessary

animations, not by negatively affecting gameplay by forcing everyone to be a sitting

duck for a second after firing a shot.

The stubby is overpowered at the moment, with or without it's glitches. By fully "fixing"/nerfing it in the proper way (switch removed jump removed and crouch removed though not neccessarily halving damage) I believe the gun would be a lot more functional (functional as in not used by every god damn person as their only weapon) with it's usage in MTA; although this is an opinion and can be debated :P

Edited by Guest
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It seems that messing with the weapon.dat has caused alot of arguments over how things should be done. I'd prefer that nothing be changed in weapon.dat, including damage and the ability to switch weapons or jump and we just learn to love the game with all it's quirks and glitches.

At least you could say "but that's the way the game is" instead of constantly dealing with different factions that each want a particular adjustment.

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I agree Nutz, it would save alot of time too :)

Dont see the point in 'even-ing out' the characters, they all seem pretty even to me....

Each characters weapons used to have advantages/disadvantages (weak/powerful, long/short range, fast/slow) and they were all good, and now for some reason they're getting changed to all act the same.

But yeah..its a beta, atleast they've tried different things and seen our opinions.

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i heard the m60 has been made weaker why take the distance away from the m60 in 0.4 then in 0.5 take the damage down aswell now it will b near impossable to kill a stubbyer with it.

In the 0.3 days the m60 was great to deal with stubbyers u had a chance to kill them now u might aswell dig ur own grave.

On a side note, the M60's damage has been halved in 0.5, dealing only 15 points per hit.

The M4 deals 14 points per hit, and with more ammo available and a better range, the M60 has become obsolete.

How much lower can VC DM possibly go?

Nutz: I'm not the one who tried to "balance" the weapons in 0.5 and failed miserably.

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Crouch glitchers are not a faction, they are a minority wailing on their downson guitar.

In any case, I am told you don´t even have to crouch to warp glitch.

It all comes natural once you switch to the pistol and run.

Meaning the entire usage of the stubby will actively be crouch or switch glitching, 0.3 desynch warping.

Obviously the downson kids are rallying up the band to celebrate.

Before they do, I´d like to mention the fact that , I seriously doubt MTA will attract more people under such circumstances, and they themselves once spoke of the need to do so.

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It seems that messing with the weapon.dat has caused alot of arguments over how things should be done. I'd prefer that nothing be changed in weapon.dat, including damage and the ability to switch weapons or jump and we just learn to love the game with all it's quirks and glitches.

At least you could say "but that's the way the game is" instead of constantly dealing with different factions that each want a particular adjustment.

The problem comes up that is it's not the game itself but MTA modifying it's memory and mission script. In the actual game you don't warp while switching and get a free second shot or desync and move+shooting while jumping and it's easier to hit people etc. Thus, I'd figure that the MTA team wants to fix these "glitches" and want to balance the game so that it is more playable and not a huge robber spawn war because there's nothing nearly as effective as the stubby.

I agree Nutz, it would save alot of time too

Dont see the point in 'even-ing out' the characters, they all seem pretty even to me....

Each characters weapons used to have advantages/disadvantages (weak/powerful, long/short range, fast/slow) and they were all good, and now for some reason they're getting changed to all act the same.

But yeah..its a beta, atleast they've tried different things and seen our opinions.

As I said, the stubby is extremely unbalanced at default and has huge advantages over other players in MTA. If they seem even to you, you sir don't play the other characters enough or abuse other ingame glitches to give yourself advantages. Most guns in comparison to the stubby are disadvantaged. All guns are not being changed to act the same but to be balanced with each other so that each situation can't be solved with the usage of a single weapon, the stubby.

Crouch glitchers are not a faction, they are a minority wailing on their downson guitar.

In any case, I am told you don´t even have to crouch to warp glitch.

It all comes natural once you switch to the pistol and run.

Meaning the entire usage of the stubby will actively be crouch or switch glitching, 0.3 desynch warping.

Obviously the downson kids are rallying up the band to celebrate.

Before they do, I´d like to mention the fact that , I seriously doubt MTA will attract more people under such circumstances, and they themselves once spoke of the need to do so.

As for the warping comment, this is true and my suggestion (for the time being until a fix can be made which I'd figure is extremely difficult) would be to increase the switch time roughly 5 intervals past the end of the animation so that the animation can end on other peoples screens (with a reasonable fps)

EDIT: BTW, I'm not pushing to have jumping enabled which I keep reading from Kung a lot, I'm pushing to have everything removed from the stubby (crouch jump and switch) as I figure this will be more balanced then what it has been.

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As I said, the stubby is extremely unbalanced at default and has huge advantages over other players in MTA. If they seem even to you, you sir don't play the other characters enough or abuse other ingame glitches to give yourself advantages. Most guns in comparison to the stubby are disadvantaged. All guns are not being changed to act the same but to be balanced with each other so that each situation can't be solved with the usage of a single weapon, the stubby.

It's not as bad as you make it sound, in 0.4 it was fine, the only annoying glitch (switch) was removed, and then people decided to crouch, this is the thing they are trying to remove i believe. (apparantly they have to disable jumping to disable the crouch with it)

The jumping is not a problem, everyone jumps its not a glitch and it doesnt make them skip animations.

MTA has been mainly about the robber since 0.3, and at that time all the glitches were considered techniques, which is fine.

Thats also why theres such a big discussion about it.

None of the other main guns are disadvantaged compared to the stubby...(refering to 0.3/0.4, M60 was well powerful and had long range, and M4 was the fastest shooting, with an even longer range, Shotgun also takes u down, and has longer range, AND can kill in 2 shots)

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