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The stubby isn't fixed


Zircon

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It's not as bad as you make it sound, in 0.4 it was fine, the only annoying glitch (switch) was removed, and then people decided to crouch, this is the thing they are trying to remove i believe. (apparantly they have to disable jumping to disable the crouch with it)

The jumping is not a problem, everyone jumps its not a glitch and it doesnt make them skip animations.

MTA has been mainly about the robber since 0.3, and at that time all the glitches were considered techniques, which is fine.

Thats also why theres such a big discussion about it.

None of the other main guns are disadvantaged compared to the stubby...(refering to 0.3/0.4, M60 was well powerful and had long range, and M4 was the fastest shooting, with an even longer range, Shotgun also takes u down, and has longer range, AND can kill in 2 shots)

I played 0.4.1 if you don't realize, and I understand quite fully that you think it's fine but I disagree. There are glitches with jumping which you obviously don't realize and nor will I explain here. I see that you are rooting for jumping to be left in instead of crouch, however, this still makes you extremely mobile with the stubby shotgun which is what I have a problem with. The mobility makes the gun extremely powerful, more powerful then any other practical weapon. (If you're not stupid, you can pretty well get within range of anyone with long ranged easily.) Not to mention the stubbys knock down, wide spread and damage per shot coupled with the mobility is its cause of extreme damage. Many people agree that jumping has it's glitches though not nearly as dangerous as crouching/switching though still dangerous. The mobility is the most dangerous point of the stubby I believe.

I doubt the devs intend that the game be about a single class when the entire city is open. If they intended the game to be about a single class, then we would have large arena fights with an automatic robber spawn.

As mentioned, other guns are disadvantged thanks to the stubby's mobility. It can deal a great amount of damage with a minimal amount of damage taken.

(Please note I'm pretty grammatically off in this post, I apoligize but I'm rushing off to another game)

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ok you can argue about both sides in this case for example the .3 stubby really isn't a glitch as all your doing is switching from stubby to pistol then running i personally don't think that is a glitch a glitch is when you have M4 or m60 and you crouch to get infinite ammo thats a glitch or when u throw a grendade then jump thats a glitch but when you switch from pistol to stubby then run that isn't a glitch its just a switch of weapons....and whats the big deal anyone can do it and i seem to recall everyone whining when .4 came out that omg the mta team wrecked the stubby omg this sucks but now .3 stubby is back and your whining about how they should fix the stubby completly it sounds to be that a bunch of you are hypocrits :roll:

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EDIT: BTW, I'm not pushing to have jumping enabled which I keep reading from Kung a lot, I'm pushing to have everything removed from the stubby (crouch jump and switch) as I figure this will be more balanced then what it has been.

And I agree. If stubby users can't crouch, jump, or switch weapons, the stubby would be far less dominante. Right now, there might as well be 1 spawn type-- Robber. :lol:

A small delay for switching weps for the robber would take care of the current problem. The robber is so mobile, that why even have long range guns?

I think the best idea I can offer the MTA team is this----

MAKE A NEW GAME MODE CALLED--- STUBBY WAReZ. lol, ok maybe just call it stubby wars. :oops:

In this special game mode, jumping, crouching, switching with stubby will be enabled, so all the pro stubby fighters can jump, crouch, switch, and GLITCH ALL FKING day, without bothering the 90% of newcomming players who do\will HATE stubby wars. :lol:

Then in the normal DM mode, the stubby will not have jumping, switching, crouching enabled. Boom! Everyone is happy!

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Before they do, I´d like to mention the fact that , I seriously doubt MTA will attract more people under such circumstances, and they themselves once spoke of the need to do so.

Er... there are other game modes available apart from VC DM which some people don't seem to be aware of. GTA3's Shoreside map is great for class-based DM and VC's Stunt mode has been improved a lot. These will attract new players.

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All you poeple defending the stubby switch thing are useing it. and the only reason there was no post about the switch being taken out was because you found out about the crouch glich in 4.1 and then you just stopped bitching because you had your method back.

this is why i'm pulling for jump, crouch, and switch to be taken out.

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It seems that messing with the weapon.dat has caused alot of arguments over how things should be done. I'd prefer that nothing be changed in weapon.dat, including damage and the ability to switch weapons or jump and we just learn to love the game with all it's quirks and glitches.

At least you could say "but that's the way the game is" instead of constantly dealing with different factions that each want a particular adjustment.

The problem comes up that is it's not the game itself but MTA modifying it's memory and mission script. In the actual game you don't warp while switching and get a free second shot or desync and move+shooting while jumping and it's easier to hit people etc. Thus, I'd figure that the MTA team wants to fix these "glitches" and want to balance the game so that it is more playable and not a huge robber spawn war because there's nothing nearly as effective as the stubby.

If the stubby is so overpowering (which it is), then why are they turning down the power on the other weapons? And then the took out the spaz which was a viable alternative.

I say, leave the weapon.dat alone in it's entirety. If there is a problem with a weapon, either live with it and call the glitches techniques or take the weapon out completely.

If the stubby were taken out completely, everyone would have to use other weapons and the game might be more fun.

BUT

if you leave it in but take out ALL the glitches (force the player to sit still for a few seconds after shooting), gameplay would really really suck.

However,

Everyone would still be "forced" to use the stubby because even in it's neutered state it would still be too deadly not to use.

So using stubby would make the gameplay suck but you would effectively be forced to use it,

thus the game would suck.

No stubby at all would be much better than a totally dorked up stubby.

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Ya know what I think the real problem here is..

The fact that today I ran up to a guy (mexican) who was standing still spraying lead all over a group of players,,, I shot my police shotgun square into his back, and nothing happened.

This is normal, so I shot again.

Nothing happened.

so I shot again.

Nothing happened.

So I shot again.

His health dropped by about 25%

From the beginning of MTA, the delay in this game has been unbearable. That is the real problem here. :cry:

I am sick of fighting like this. I am sticking to stunt untill DM plays the way is should have all along.

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ugh stop modding the weapons.dat and leave it the way it was...

the game isnt much like VC anymore, stubby jumping works the same way in SP while switching and crouching are pretty much useless in SP... and now thanks to your mods the stubby is more glitched out than ever, no mobility with nades makes the sailor not fun to use anymore, and you guys got rid of the basic nade glitch but left in the nade inferno. good job on that one though, now i can at least pin cheaters down with it since i can no longer one hit kill them with the stubby.

and the m60 does 15 damage? LMFAO just remove the mex already, first you guys take the mollies and ammo away so nobody even uses the mex, now his only good weapon is completely useless, the m4 dominates it now in every way.

please stop trying to "balance" the game by modding weapons... whoever was in charge of balancing the game has no idea how the game plays out in server with 20 random players... i am guessing whoever decided on these changes doesnt even play the game outside of beta tests :?

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What i still dont understand is that if you guys are complaining about the stubby why dont you just not fight with it or around it. Spawn in other locations and fight ANYWHERE besides the Robber spawn. Instead of enjoying MTA 0.5 you guys have to complain about it, just play the game the way it is. Complaining wont make it go away anytime soon.

EDIT: There is no point in arguing over if it should stay or not, its up the MTA Team.

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@ Gamefreek, we want to to play Vice City, what the Team have done is change it to the points where it is to far from the original gameplay (ignoring the fact that its multiplayer).

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if you leave it in but take out ALL the glitches (force the player to sit still for a few seconds after shooting), gameplay would really really suck.
The only way the gameplay would "really really" suck is if the MTA team leaves an abusive glitch open, one which can clearly be fixed, and takes all others out.

GF: I'm within my rights to complain, I think.

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ugh stop modding the weapons.dat and leave it the way it was...

the game isnt much like VC anymore, stubby jumping works the same way in SP while switching and crouching are pretty much useless in SP...

Switching is very useful in SP (if you are using stubby).

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if you leave it in but take out ALL the glitches (force the player to sit still for a few seconds after shooting), gameplay would really really suck.
The only way the gameplay would "really really" suck is if the MTA team leaves an abusive glitch open, one which can clearly be fixed, and takes all others out.

So you would be fine with having to stand still for a few seconds after each shot? That would be good gameplay?

I don't think it's right to call it an 'abusive' glitch. molly and nade spamming is an abusive glitch

(which is why they were banned in many gangwars). I don't recall weapon switching ever being banned in .3 gangwars, or jumping/crouching being banned in 0.4 gangwars.

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if you leave it in but take out ALL the glitches (force the player to sit still for a few seconds after shooting), gameplay would really really suck.
The only way the gameplay would "really really" suck is if the MTA team leaves an abusive glitch open, one which can clearly be fixed, and takes all others out.

GF: I'm within my rights to complain, I think.

I'd rather have the game synced better, it seems that rather than actually sort the problems with MTA, such as poor sync, that they would rather change Vice City to fit in with the poor sync in their program.

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So you would be fine with having to stand still for a few seconds after each shot? That would be good gameplay?

I don't think it's right to call it an 'abusive' glitch.

Gameplay doesn't revolve around the stubby. Having to stand still for a few seconds after shooting, however, will allow the animation to end properly on the other person's screen, rather than switching weapons and running to create a warp effect because the animation is still playing on the other end.

That's exactly why it's an abusive glitch. Not only can you cancel the entire shooting animation at the moment, as you could with jumping (even though it probably won't sync properly), but you can also easily create warp in between your shots, making you insanely difficult to hit if you do it right.

This is also the reason why switching with a shotgun weapon is NOT useful in SP during a gun fight.

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Time to begin, siogh ;p

If the stubby is so overpowering (which it is), then why are they turning down the power on the other weapons? And then the took out the spaz which was a viable alternative.

I say, leave the weapon.dat alone in it's entirety. If there is a problem with a weapon, either live with it and call the glitches techniques or take the weapon out completely.

If the stubby were taken out completely, everyone would have to use other weapons and the game might be more fun.

BUT

if you leave it in but take out ALL the glitches (force the player to sit still for a few seconds after shooting), gameplay would really really suck.

However,

Everyone would still be "forced" to use the stubby because even in it's neutered state it would still be too deadly not to use.

So using stubby would make the gameplay suck but you would effectively be forced to use it,

thus the game would suck.

No stubby at all would be much better than a totally dorked up stubby.

I believe the only other weapon they nerfed power on aside from the stubby is the M60, which is another idiotic balancing move in my humble opinion. The spaz on the otherhand wasn't actually as glitchy compared to it's overpowered self. It's the only gun that was "more powerful" then the stubby, within viable range and attributes, although the stubby's mobility could be used to overtake many spaz users.

As for removing the gun, I'm up all up for grabs on removing the stubby, it would completely alter gameplay. Remove the cop shotgun and we're looking at hellish different gameplay because the shotguns in general are some of the most commonly used weapons aside from the, as you said, glitchy grenades/molotovs.

Removing the stubby's glitches would only impede the "look at me I'm super fast and super powered with my stubby" style of combat, which is extremely common as from what I've seen. I don't think the game would "suck" in any means, it would however mean that you'd need to change your gameplay and think a little more then just running up as fast as you can to an opponent and blasting them with your shotgun.

Neutering the stubby would decrease it's usage severely. Sure, in CQB it might be an "ok" weapon to utilize depending on your skill with aiming it because you would most likely need to make all your shots count. I doubt it would be nearly as damaging to gameplay as it is now.

If you'd like the stubby, sure, I'm all up for grabs on that one, as long as it's gone or fixed I'm dandy well.

ugh stop modding the weapons.dat and leave it the way it was...

the game isnt much like VC anymore, stubby jumping works the same way in SP while switching and crouching are pretty much useless in SP... and now thanks to your mods the stubby is more glitched out than ever, no mobility with nades makes the sailor not fun to use anymore, and you guys got rid of the basic nade glitch but left in the nade inferno. good job on that one though, now i can at least pin cheaters down with it since i can no longer one hit kill them with the stubby.

and the m60 does 15 damage? LMFAO just remove the mex already, first you guys take the mollies and ammo away so nobody even uses the mex, now his only good weapon is completely useless, the m4 dominates it now in every way.

please stop trying to "balance" the game by modding weapons... whoever was in charge of balancing the game has no idea how the game plays out in server with 20 random players... i am guessing whoever decided on these changes doesnt even play the game outside of beta tests

Sorry, I disagree head =(, at the current state of the software and the original gameplay, this game is not fit for multiplayer.

As I mentioned, the original game was not made for multiplayer, so formidable multiplayer balancing was never done to the game. As for the nade glitch, meh, I did mention it before but it seems there isn't anything they could do to fix it at this time, presuming they attempted.

The mexican is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, after 0.2.2, the mexican was useless. The decreased ammo supply and the lack-there-of mollies made the class virtually useless upon spawning. M60 ammo is rarely found so you're SOL once you use that precious 3/4's of a clip. The M4 is an extremely effective weapon also like the M60 in it's old state, end of story.

As for game play balancing, I don't know if these were mistakes or they weren't play tested with the correct people if at all, but I'm betting that it's only the latter and not the former.

What i still dont understand is that if you guys are complaining about the stubby why dont you just not fight with it or around it. Spawn in other locations and fight ANYWHERE besides the Robber spawn. Instead of enjoying MTA 0.5 you guys have to complain about it, just play the game the way it is. Complaining wont make it go away anytime soon.

EDIT: There is no point in arguing over if it should stay or not, its up the MTA Team.

I disagree with it being complaining, I figure I'm debating a good topic which has a seriously effect on gameplay which I hope will be read by the MTA team. Wether or not I spawned another class and I stay away from the robber spawn doesn't mean that I won't run into one of the most powerful weapons in the game. This gun has serious issues as have been posted, and ignoring these and posting that they should simply be avoided is ignorance. There's a problem with the gameplay, the stubby is utilized by everyone and there's no weapon to match it, in it's current state or it's old state.

I hope the MTA team reads this topic as there's opinions from actual day-to-day MTA players who have been out there and seen what they need to see to form a good opinion.

Switching is very useful in SP (if you are using stubby).

So you would be fine with having to stand still for a few seconds after each shot? That would be good gameplay?

I don't think it's right to call it an 'abusive' glitch. molly and nade spamming is an abusive glitch

(which is why they were banned in many gangwars). I don't recall weapon switching ever being banned in .3 gangwars, or jumping/crouching being banned in 0.4 gangwars.

The switching isn't that useful in SP. The difference being that the AI actually has a much better ability to hit you then an MTA player thanks to latency etc.

Warping making yourself much harder to hit, getting an instant second shot, and in general messing up gameplay isn't an abusive glitch? (For more reference, see Zircon's post) er. I've played in gangwars with and without mollies/nades, and while I've seen what I think is glitching, I've seen great gameplay where they are not abused. However, in their current state, they probaly should be removed.

EDIT:

Sorry but I think the less people with 300 to 400 pings the better for sync and gameplay.

Other games don't even let ppl who lag that bad even play and if they do they suffer more than we do. It's funny to even hear you complain about who sees what animation finish. Im sure I have never seen you ingame where you actually were unless you were paused.

Im convinced that it's just a bunch of jump glitchers who lost thier pet glitch...

I hope MTA can get rid of all the glitches but if not I hope they don't purposefully add a glitch to make the vocal minority happy. It may be impossible with this code thou.

just as I stated, Kung is all "liek omg, they just want their jump glitch back 11" and when in reality, we're pushing to have a glitch, which Kung utilizes no less, removed. That or of course, the stubby removed. Who's been going "fuck switch bring jump" back all their posts. As stated in a footnote by myself, I want it to be a switch after the animation has completed in full with no crouching or jumping the switch break animation to be extended to prevent a warp (61, +5 over the 56 for the end of the animation for the stubby. BTW, this would be good to have with other guns also for the time being) or removed.

As for the lag complaints, sorry, those don't apply to the majority posting (myself included) and this is MTA, lag is part of the game.

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Sorry but I think the less people with 300 to 400 pings the better for sync and gameplay.

Other games don't even let ppl who lag that bad even play and if they do they suffer more than we do. It's funny to even hear you complain about who sees what animation finish. Im sure I have never seen you ingame where you actually were unless you were paused.

Im convinced that it's just a bunch of jump glitchers who lost thier pet glitch...

I hope MTA can get rid of all the glitches but if not I hope they don't purposefully add a glitch to make the vocal minority happy. It may be impossible with this code thou.

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Its not hard...leave the weapons alone, 0.3 had the best setup ever.

Wow, theres a few bugs with the weapons, that cant be helped with a multiplayer mod for a single player game.

The only thing that ever needed fixing was the major lag and sync problems, which have made a huge return with 0.5.

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Sorry but I think the less people with 300 to 400 pings the better for sync and gameplay.

Other games don't even let ppl who lag that bad even play and if they do they suffer more than we do. It's funny to even hear you complain about who sees what animation finish. Im sure I have never seen you ingame where you actually were unless you were paused.

Im convinced that it's just a bunch of jump glitchers who lost thier pet glitch...

I hope MTA can get rid of all the glitches but if not I hope they don't purposefully add a glitch to make the vocal minority happy. It may be impossible with this code thou.

i dont think that the "jump-glitchers" are a minority around here, not concerning the stubby at least :wink: the jump restriction can stay with the nade if its the only way to get rid of the glitch, but taking the jump away from stubby fights has only made them more dumb than ever... :roll:

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that is what i have done i kinda quit in 0.4 becuz they fucked up the M60 i was hoping they would have brought it back to normal but they dident so i wont b back.

look what they have done to it gave u less fuckin ammo they have made the fire distance shorter and now they have made the damage fuckin less u might aswell use a fuckin water gun!

Now look looks like there fucking up another big wepaon of the game!

ALL THAT NEEDED FIXED WAS THE ROBBER SPAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as ive said i dident have one problem with stubby glitchiing cuz the m60 in 0.3 could deal with it easy if u knew what u where doing.

The day they bring back the M60 to how it was is the day ill start playing again.

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