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Article: The Car Kill


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so this is it? car killing will be allowed on the PARTYSERVER from now on?

what about those of us who dont like it?

ive found no trouble in the past informing people that car killing isnt allowed, and even if they dont know that when they join the server (although i think the vast majority of newbies know exactly what it is), they will know once they run someone over because people will tell them. they will only get voted out or kicked if they do it again, and again, after a few warnings. i have never seen people unfairly kicked off the server for car killing, without having a chance to change their ways. and i just do not see the arguement that it is too much of a hassle to enforce the rule. i have had no trouble in the past votekicking car killers with the approval of most of the server, so i dont think the job it is too tough for the admins.

the issue here isnt what everyone is making it out to be, ie, learning to dodge cars and watching your back. i know perfectly well how to do that but i still dont want car killing to be allowed. the major problem with car killing allowed is that there are MANY noobs who come to the server to car kill, and only car kill. you can dodge them for 5 minutes, shoot up their car, but all they will do is sprint to the nearest vehicle and start the process all over again. these people are extremely annoying and most of the time they are not not worth chasing.

i also do not enjoy the 'rush' of dodging cars when fighting in, say, a big gun battle at ammunation. it IS NOT fair to go out and manage to shoot and kill a couple of people without dying yourself, finally being able to buy that AK or flamethrower, then getting run over all of the sudden by an infernus going 120mph, losing ALL of your hard earned weapons, and 1000 dollars in cash.

the only true solution to this issue would be to have two seperate good servers - one with car killing allowed, and one with car killing banned. this is only possible though if the GTA3 community grows because right now, there are rarely ever over 20 people playing GTA3:MTA on all servers combined.

is this it you ask.. well no. It's it for now but it could change.

I do want to get people interested in this game so we can get more servers available. To do that I think the trick will be to coax the car killers to get out and fight, maybe even show them what to do to kill and make them into better players. Call them noobs and kick them and they will go back to Vice City and not come back. They will also share that opinion with people who won't bother to try LC.

Helikills were always annoying but legal and discourgaged by vetran players. I have said a few times that this still isn't as bad as car killers in GTA3 but it is the closest comparison.

I don't want to scare away the main people who play there like you but I also want to make sure the most people get the most use out of that server and a blanket ban on car kills wasn't doing that for us.

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They felt it was a noobish way to kill and it disrupted the far more honorable way to kill, namely glitching with the stubby

You hit the nail on the head there. Sometimes I get the impression we shouldn't have bothered with placing vehicles or any other weapon.

I've stopped playing VC for now because I'm getting really fed up with the over-use of stubby by more experienced players. It's all they do, and in my opinion, it borders abuse similar to doing only carkills.

When you start reasoning as to why people do that, there's only one right answer: It's the easiest/fastest kill, which tells me these kills need some more balancing. (read: NERF :twisted: ) Taking away the credit for carkills was one measure to discourage constant carkilling, but as it's obviously bugged at this moment, it's become actually more annoying.

I've played on Partyserver with moderated carkilling, and when I have to hold back when charging into a fight with a car isn't satisfying.

Fact is, that MTA3 isn't MTAVC on a different map, it's become a different game, with a different set of rules. It may take a while to get used to after playing MTAVC for long, but in my opinion it's worth it.

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They felt it was a noobish way to kill and it disrupted the far more honorable way to kill, namely glitching with the stubby

You hit the nail on the head there. Sometimes I get the impression we shouldn't have bothered with placing vehicles or any other weapon.

I've stopped playing VC for now because I'm getting really fed up with the over-use of stubby by more experienced players. It's all they do, and in my opinion, it borders abuse similar to doing only carkills.

When you start reasoning as to why people do that, there's only one right answer: It's the easiest/fastest kill, which tells me these kills need some more balancing. (read: NERF :twisted: ) Taking away the credit for carkills was one measure to discourage constant carkilling, but as it's obviously bugged at this moment, it's become actually more annoying.

I've played on Partyserver with moderated carkilling, and when I have to hold back when charging into a fight with a car isn't satisfying.

Fact is, that MTA3 isn't MTAVC on a different map, it's become a different game, with a different set of rules. It may take a while to get used to after playing MTAVC for long, but in my opinion it's worth it.

righto, i love the last part

but, i just realised GTAIII carkilling is similar to UT2004

lol

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i also do not enjoy the 'rush' of dodging cars when fighting in, say, a big gun battle at ammunation. it IS NOT fair to go out and manage to shoot and kill a couple of people without dying yourself, finally being able to buy that AK or flamethrower, then getting run over all of the sudden by an infernus going 120mph, losing ALL of your hard earned weapons, and 1000 dollars in cash.

What makes a game hard is what makes it worth playing.

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trx wrote:

You hit the nail on the head there. Sometimes I get the impression we shouldn't have bothered with placing vehicles or any other weapon.

I've stopped playing VC for now because I'm getting really fed up with the over-use of stubby by more experienced players. It's all they do, and in my opinion, it borders abuse similar to doing only carkills.

When you start reasoning as to why people do that, there's only one right answer: It's the easiest/fastest kill, which tells me these kills need some more balancing. (read: NERF ) Taking away the credit for carkills was one measure to discourage constant carkilling, but as it's obviously bugged at this moment, it's become actually more annoying.

I've played on Partyserver with moderated carkilling, and when I have to hold back when charging into a fight with a car isn't satisfying.

Fact is, that MTA3 isn't MTAVC on a different map, it's become a different game, with a different set of rules. It may take a while to get used to after playing MTAVC for long, but in my opinion it's worth it.

Sounds like you never took the time to learn how the VC game is played, are not very good at it and are making excuses why. Gta3 doesn't differ to a large extent, you still have to time shots, wait for people to get up, etc. etc..

People are aloud to play the game they way they like, whether they hide in choppers, drive cars all map, and so on. That is their choice how they play, as long as they don't cheat. Just because someone is good with stubby doesn't mean they don't know how to use other weapons, it's just perhaps they know that stubby "takes care of business" in some situations and opinons may vary on that as well.

VC doesn't take ages or alot of time playing or as you are seemingly putting it, wasted time.. to get good. It is worth it and it's not that hard, in some situations your shots are on target, but obviously alot of times not but they aren't off by that much you just have to know where to shoot, gta3 is not that much different.

Gta3 is a change of pace for most and something different to go do and some to "fly dodo's", laugh. VC is the battle grounds, that's perhaps why most play it.

-DooN

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Glad you can read. He "wrote" the game and he bad raps it? Saying the people that have spent their time to get good are wasting their time "in his opinion".. laugh.

So if their are players out there that are "more experienced" then obviously something is to be learned.

Weapons are balanced to some extent.. on close quarters perhaps stubby is the best.. it's a "stubby shotgun" meaning powerful close range, alot of battles end up like that, thus you use stubby perhaps. Then far range you have the m60 etc. People camp out with m60 here and there from far range, nothing a stubby can do there.

-DooN

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I don't think the stubby is nearly as overpowered as in the last version. I never use robber anymore because they made it so only glitchers can use it now. I prefer the automatic weapons and the katana. I can kill robbers well enough. What is annoying is that there is always a mass of people at the robber spawn still.

but this thread is about the car killing in GTA3

GTA3 is much more challenging and you may have bad habits to break from Vice City.

about the cars for the next release I would like to see one of these things happen

- Proper credit going to the car killer

or

- Zero health lost from car hits.

I prefer the first one. If we are going to say car killing is part of the game then people should get credit or even partial credit.

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It's ok Kent 8) . He is partially right though. I have to admit that being unable to fix the stubby's knockback while getting killed because of that over and over has had influence on my previous post. The VC character is exceptionally lame in getting up. It's one of the major things I didn't like about the game compared to GTA3: the main character's animations. :? At any rate, we're going to have a look at all the weapons in Vice City, some weapons just aren't balanced. -So, i'm not saying that because I can't beat someone holding a stronger weapon than me, duh.

About the carkilling though. I'm going to look into making the character jump just a bit higher, if that works, along with no-credit for a carkill it could help just enough to discourage constant running peeps over.

edit: I didn't mean to 'bad rep' mtavc of course. All I was saying is that personally I find mta3 more enjoyable, even with the carkills as they are. People can do as they please for now. I don't have to be bothered by it :P

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About the carkilling though. I'm going to look into making the character jump just a bit higher, if that works, along with no-credit for a carkill it could help just enough to discourage constant running peeps over.

i would even go a step further and make it so that you wont loose money if you get killed by a car, its already enough to loose your weapons

and i think that if carkilling would be rewarded this mod would end up in a destruction derby (which it already is now)

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About the carkilling though. I'm going to look into making the character jump just a bit higher, if that works, along with no-credit for a carkill it could help just enough to discourage constant running peeps over.

i would even go a step further and make it so that you wont loose money if you get killed by a car, its already enough to loose your weapons

and i think that if carkilling would be rewarded this mod would end up in a destruction derby (which it already is now)

Yeah but don't you think it's a bit of a mixed message...

I think car kills should get credit but since it's an easy kill it needs a bit more balance. Jumping higher would be a help and more powerful carkilling weapons.. like mollies or the M16. If you do make it easier to avoid a car kill then they should be left alone and given full credit for the slightly more difficult car kill. Nutz had an idea to make people ration thier kills by taking the keys away after a car kill for a period of time.. that might help too

If car kills are bad then make damage 0... but I don't think anyone would support that. but if you did you could hit and knock people down and then get out for the kill.

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Ghengis Kung wrote:

I never use robber anymore because they made it so only glitchers can use it now

Not so, infact most the glitches have been removed with it. No "pistol glitches" or no double shots anymore mainly, etc. It's just a good close range gun, and since most battles end up that way, it works out for the best perhaps.

As far as the car killer goes, it would be helpfull if we knew the parameters you have to go by and work with in order for us to really give some helpfull ideas. But first thing to decide is if car killing should be penalized, it is GTA and cars are a big part. Also think of future players that have played it on PS2 or just single player... when they come online they will most certainly go for a car, seemingly as you use one easily 3/4 of time when playing single player. You could even have two styles of the game with/without cars.

What about putting up cement blocks or something on the sides of ammunation and other key areas? You could put in rocket launchers that really do some damage to cars..

What would be really cool is if you had to earn some money to buy a license.. this way you are forced to be a pedestrian for a little bit.. then when you gather some cash you can buy a license and drive. (and maybe even a pilots license that cost a little be more)

-DooN

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We don't want to remove the ability to kill with a car completely. Really it's just a question of trying to balance it, in a game where weapons are hard to come by (compared to VC) and the better the more money you have, the balance is thrown out when a player can get the most powerful weapon in the game for free, a car, in a few seconds, and keep it or one like it throughout the game.

We may consider some ways to discourage or lessen the ability to constantly car kill with no break. Or alternatively perhaps look at it from the other angle and promote the usage of areas not easily reachable by car as combat arenas.

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Are you able to do something like hold back the ability for someone to drive/fly untill they have a license?

That would be a great solution, it would give you something to work for.. your somewhat privledged to be able to drive the car around etc.. you could even do something like after so many car kills you license gets taken away or suspended.

But if you had to go out and work to get your license, and then to get your pilots license that would give people motivation to be pedestrians.. etc. and whenever you get a car kill you don't get any money anyways to help you towards buying things.

-DooN

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Ghengis Kung wrote:
I never use robber anymore because they made it so only glitchers can use it now

Not so, infact most the glitches have been removed with it. No "pistol glitches" or no double shots anymore mainly, etc. It's just a good close range gun, and since most battles end up that way, it works out for the best perhaps.-DooN

Sorry to stay off topic...

Right now there is no way to remain competitive with the stubby shotgun without somehow skipping the pause and reload anim.. namely by crouching or jumping aka Glitching.

So what I said about only glitchers being able to use the stubby is 100% accurate.

MrBump,

I would like to see the pedestian become a bit more nimble (jump a bit higher and run a bit faster) if possible and have a slightly easier time with setting a car on fire. (either strengthening the weapons or weakening the cars)... After this is accomplished I think car killers deserve full credit for the car kills

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Ghengis kung wrote:

Sorry to stay off topic...

Right now there is no way to remain competitive with the stubby shotgun without somehow skipping the pause and reload anim.. namely by crouching or jumping aka Glitching.

So what I said about only glitchers being able to use the stubby is 100% accurate.

You are completely mistaken, I suggest you spend a little more time at the game, or buy a new video card. It's there you just don't see the animation perhaps at times, as with many other things in VC. There is no glitching done at all to be "competitive with the stubby shotgun". On the persons screen they see everything animation they are doing, unlike glitches in the old days with the pistol 2 shot glitch etc.

But once again what do you consider a glitch even being able to shoot someone is almost a glitch when you are shooting to the side or them with the "automatic weapons" instead of actually shooting at them at times. That's that back to the topic.

As I was saying a form of license would be a good idea, but is it possible to do?

If you can't implement a license you do something like..

if you have on a certain pair of a clothes (that you buy and is considered your license)

door are unlocked

else doors are locked.

You could have different pairs of clothes for driving, flying, and a super license/pair of clothes for both or something.

But once agian this all depends on what parameters you can work with.

-DooN

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I would like to see the pedestian become a bit more nimble (jump a bit higher and run a bit faster) if possible and have a slightly easier time with setting a car on fire. (either strengthening the weapons or weakening the cars)... After this is accomplished I think car killers deserve full credit for the car kills

i agree to all thats underlined

the problem isnt a car vs ped fight, when its 1 car vs 1 ped its easy to dodge the car, the problems are the players that join the server and sit in thier car and just wait others to have a gunfight to roll over them (and if you ever get them in front of your gun they just simply type "/kill" in their chat)

its like in real life, you either fight or you run, those ppl that only do carkills get a kick when someone hunts them with guns, they even say "come and chase me" then they drive thru the whole city and you could hunt them for hours

on the gta3 partyserver (where most ppl play) we had a rule that you should avoid carkilling, the rule has been taken away some days ago and for me its ok but what i see now is very skilled players turning into ammoshop-spawn-carkillers just coz they got pissed of getting run over themselfes

i personally dont like to carkill anymore, its just doesnt give me anything at all and if i see 2 ppl haveing a duel on foot i wait in my car till one of them died and then other one is ready for me, same goes for shooting in the back and other stuff....

there are like different levels of players, there are for example ppl that run from car to car and when youre about to give them the last shot they kill themselfs

or another example is Kryptos, hes the fairest player ive ever seen in mta, he doesnt carkill you if youre not prepared, doesnt shoot you in the back, and if you grab your bat you can be sure he'll do the same, even if he has all guns in the game

well to get back on topic....just do anything to make it fair, dont loose money when being carkilled, give better guns and better jump, make the cars weaker, or do the license thing....but if you reward for carkilling than plz make it a server option coz im not in the mood for destruction derby anymore and thats the reason why if started offering fair duels at places the cars cant reach easily like salvatores mansion, chinatown,the ship....

but sometimes i think that ppl play gta/mta coz they just dont want to play fair

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We may consider some ways to discourage or lessen the ability to constantly car kill with no break. Or alternatively perhaps look at it from the other angle and promote the usage of areas not easily reachable by car as combat arenas.

well, i like car killing, and i dont really mind being car killed. and at the moment, u hardly ever get a frag for car killing, it just says they died. if u want to earn the kill, get out of ur car. also (correct me if i am wrong) but u dont get nearly as much money wen u run sum1 over as u do wen u blow them away.

i like how that guy ended it

As for the whole "car n00bs" debacle...Ransom, leader of the VCP clan for MTA, said it best: "I think its more n00bish to get hit by a car."

me pats ransom on the back

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Or alternatively perhaps look at it from the other angle and promote the usage of areas not easily reachable by car as combat arenas.

i like that idea, like putting the ammunation in chinatown. ( a central location, thats innacessable by cars) the only reason the boat isnt used often is cause its way off to one side of portland (but man fights are fun there) maybe i'll start making a concious effort to take fights to more remote locations :wink:

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I finally took the time to read this and was quite surprised to find myself quoted at the end, I remember the night I was playing with you Jordan, I wasn't expecting to get quoted :oops:

My only big disagreement with this article (even though not the issue) is the "experienced players constantly use look-behind". I never use look behind, honestly. I just catch a glimpse of a yellow dot coming towards me on the radar and I turn to meet them.

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I don't think the stubby is nearly as overpowered as in the last version. I never use robber anymore because they made it so only glitchers can use it now. I prefer the automatic weapons and the katana. I can kill robbers well enough. What is annoying is that there is always a mass of people at the robber spawn still.

whow..someone agrees with me that 'they' (MTA team) killed the robber :)

Question: To take away a feature (ie. game character) by making it unplayable....do you think this is a) Good b) Bad ?

You decide....

Also..you're wonderig why there are many people at the rober spawn and call it ANNOYING ?

Fascinating...you are 'annoyed' by how other people prefer to play the game ?

If people prefer to spawn as robber and prefer using stubby and the occasional robber spawn war (how many HOURS of fun did i already have playing with some highly experienced players at the robber(house) spawn....it shouldnt be hard to see that some of these people still cling to it and still log-in as robber in search of the good old times (robber war)..and THATS why there are usually always a bunch of people at the rober spawn.

The fact that these robber wars (which were fun once) are pointless NOW (as is the whole robber character) is another story.

Ironically - according to your words the robber now can only be used by glitchers. (This might be TRUE - i just expereince how hard it is as robber NOW). But wouldnt that mean that BEFORE (0.3) also other players could use the robber/stubby (and not ONLY the glitchers ???)

Then...why did they change the robber/spawn/stubby animations etc. IN THE FIRST PLACE ?????? Was it really so overpowered ???????

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it shouldnt be hard to see that some of these people still cling to it and still log-in as robber in search of the good old times

how true i found that when i started playing with the new robber and the new robber spawn i didnt find it as fun as it was on prawn island and the studio was perfix place for one on ones and try outs but i still play as robber but i also play with other characters every now and then and i find that there isnt enough people to kill because there all at the robber spawn so i go back to my old nature as a robber and play in a stubby war but with the new spawn the war isnt the same no more :(

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  • 2 months later...

I'm reading this, and maybe since I haven't played MTA yet I shouldn't have a say, but regardless... I have both GTA3 and VC for computer (just trying to get them shipped overseas currently). While I am not familiar with any of the MTA implimentations, last I remembered, both GTA3 and VC have higher heights, and for GTA3, obviously a bike reaching a higher height is nonexistent due to lack of them; :idea: why not use this height to prevent carkills?

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a sniper rifle placed in MTA... but that's another forum all together. :wink:

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