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Thank you MTA team your work has allowed me to spend hours enojoying my favorite game in multiplayer, although has made a few assignments late :P.

Not that i cheat or condone cheating. I agree with nearly everything everyone has said here.And to make it clear from the start I have NEVER used a god mode cheat or wepons cheat or anything else that can help me kill ppl (i like a challenge). But what i think that smithy meant was not cheating but modifiying cars,textures etc..

mta also made me explore every aspect of gta from models to map mods(Yes map mods can be used for cheating but if ur doing that u propably have a trainer anyway). Even d/led and started to learn 3DStudio! You can call me a cheat if u think changing car skins or trying to make new ped paths is cheating but there is a difference butween having fun and being a prick.

I have tried to explain this to countless people that are subborn enough to think that any form of deviation from the standard game is a crime and should be punished by blowing up their computer (yes,someone did say that once).

A suggestion to accomdate for everyone is to release 2 versions of the mta game (yes i do know that means more work,but maybe less than making a new anticheat system). One is a version that is completly unchecked, no crc, no trainer dection or anything. The second version would have something(s) built into the depths of the code which make the 2 versions imcompatible with each other. As such people wouldnt bother hacking it anymore as they are given access anyway and they wouldnt be bothering the poeple who want to play normally.

Thats my 2 cents

(if this is not appropriate for this topic , fine move it but at least here the mta devs might see this)

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This is a little thing I wrote up a while back, but I'm just going to copy and paste it here for you...

sigh...

the reason we view such things as cheating is quite simple..

it affects the gameplay in an unplanned way for other gamers...

Right now, there is no way to guarantee other mods are being used by the other people playing MTA. This causes huge problems in multi play.

the cardinal rule of multiplayer programming is... if it affects gameplay make sure its synced.

In situations of map mods, we can't guarantee everyone is using the same one, as such we consider map mods cheating.

I dont hear people complaining that games like Counterstrike and BF1942 have taken measures to verify that the map data is consistent among all players. I know this brings up the issue, "why not sync the maps and have others able to download them." this goes back to the fundamental difference between MTA and other multiplayer games. CS and BF1942 were designed as multiplayer games, maps are individual files here. in VC its not a simple matter, and we can't focus our efforts into integrating a util to edit the .img .txd (whatever) files of every other player. We are much more focused on gameplay, and stability.

We do plan on looking into the possibility of supporting custom map mods in the future however, but it is only after we have worked out the bugs in the current core.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but you have to look at it this way. We are VERY early in development. we release beta's to find bugs and ways to correct them. but the experiment goes wrong when you start throwing in other variables such as map mods (which could cause crashes). and we are left trying to find where they originated. it makes our life harder as developers, and affects teh quality of our future releases.

Kent

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A lot of people (generally n00bs) don't understand the difficulties involved in creating something MTA. The hackers don't understand it either, because when you make a trainer or a virus, you don't need to worry about stuff like memory usage, ease of use, interface etc.

I'd agree with you Kent - it'd be really confusing if you added loads of stuff and then had to spend ages trying to work out which new bit was causing the error. Also, it's better to add features gradually - get one feature perfect before moving onto the next. It's a lot better than adding loads of stuff that doesn't quite work yet.

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gg dev team =)

0mg j00 mu5t h4x! 0mg j00 d0nt? j00 pwn. s3r10usly, j00 pwn m3.

^ That was an uber-compliment =)

*huggles team* thanks for putting in what little time you have to make this game. =)

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d d

Edited by Guest

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When "cheat"-protection was removed from MTA,

and all cheaters would not cheat on the internet,

then cheat-free internet gaming would be possible,

and mods in private LAN-games.

Never going to happen, unfortunately. :(

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shortly after posting the last message on this thread, I got some flame mail in my pm box.....

So I will expand on this, and include what I had sent to him as well...

In response to "mta is hacking VC so its the same thing" type mentality.. I present the following argument

1. GTA3 & Vice City are completed games. They are no longer developing software to support the pc version of this game. As such, any attempts to prolong the life of their game (MTA for example), are beneficial to the company.

The difference that you failed to note, was that MTA is still in an early beta stage, we have plans to allow custom modifications in future releases, but we cannot allow these until we have the core technology at a stable state. Any modifying now, only delays production of that new core technology.

2. GTA3 and Vice City are single player games. As such, any modifications to the game, do not affect the experiences of other people.

MTA is not a single player game. Map mods, (even on stunt) affect other people's appreciatoin of their experience. Until such time that we can support map mods, (and verify that eveyone on the server is usinghte same map mod, handling.cfg, etc etc etc) we cannot support these. It is also difficult to bughunt when we aren't sure of the sources of error. Thus we try to limit the number of variables in any experiment... (and MTA is still in a very experimental stage).

I understand that you wish to enhance your experience of MTA with the modifications you develop / use, however this is only hurting your own experience, because we lose development time on future versions, on trying to determine if bugs that creep up are related to our core, or other untraceable isues (due to problems with modifications, cheating etc).

But I ask you to please refrain from doing so, until we can regulate such modifications, in a manner that improves the experience for everyone, and allows a quicker development time for the team. I hate to emphasize this point, because I do enjoy mywork here... but we are doing this for free, and for hte community... We get nothing out of this, so please don't try to make us out to be something evil... we have done nothing but charity for you and the thousands who have downloaded the mod.

Kent

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The point is that the majority of the people who cheat are people who doesn't get how things work. People who cheat are either:

*"n00bs" (people who never managed to frag anyone ever, so they resolve to cheating, only so they can screenshot the scoreboard, and show it to all the other loser n00bs. They rearly speak, and when they do, it's sounds a little like "OMG!!11LOL!!!" only less sophisticated)

*"pricks" (people who are 14 years and younger, who doesn't understand english nor the value of anything or anyone. When they speak, they usually speak some kind of gibberish nobody understands)

*"assholes" (People who don't care. They just want to have a good laugh along with all the other asshole)

*"ignorants" (people who ignore everything and everyone, as long as they get to cheat. These people usually have C: filled up with all kinds of different trainers)

*"dickheads" (people who cheat only so they can laugh at you. You recognize these people by the lol/rofl/lmao message they send after succesfully killing you)

The of course there's the cheater clans. These clans are formed by the N00bs (read above), and consists of one or two dumb f*cks who think they can rule all the MTA servers by joining forces and shooting wildly at everything. They usually accompany eahother where ever they go, and start to whine once they lose track of eachother. Yes, these people are so freakishly stupid they actually need help cheating.

LMAO!!! well said...

anyways, the whole MTA team rules, without you guys i dont even know what i would have been doing the last 7 months. thanks guys!! and keep on keepin' on!!! 8)

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If you had read the last bit i offered a solution that was ignored so im gonna say it again in the hope the devs think this is a good idea.

A suggestion to accomdate for everyone is to release 2 versions of the mta game (yes i do know that means more work,but maybe less than making a new anticheat system).

One is a version that is completly unchecked, no crc, no trainer dection or anything (This can be used for LAN or basically anything that the 'hacking' people want to use if for, there would be no point going to a server if it had the no-crc checks if u wanted a proper game,it would be only for hacks).

The second version would have something(s) built into the depths of the code which make the 2 versions imcompatible with each other. As such people wouldnt bother hacking it anymore as they are given unrestriced access to the other version of the game. And they wouldnt be bothering the poeple who want to play normally as they would be in the 'cheat' servers.

Im sure that implementing this isnt easy and will take time. But im guessing the aim of mta team is to make the best, most enjoyable possible game they can. Hacks impact greatly on the enjoyment of mta to the point of making people stop playing the game.

The point basically is to give ppl a choice to hack or not. Only this time those two groups(hackers and non-hacks) are seperated into different servers.Any CONSTRUCTIVE critism i welcome.

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*"dickheads" (people who cheat only so they can laugh at you. You recognize these people by the lol/rofl/lmao message they send after succesfully killing you)

A nice idea, but some people just cheat for the "fun" of pissing other people off. Plus, many hackers just love the challenge of cracking something, "putting two fingers up to authority" and suchlike.

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I completely agree with Mr. Bill.

Too many people take MTA for granted/don't understand it's not a Rock* mod.

I had quit playing GTA, I got bored with it, but MTA has renewed my interest; I feel like I'm playing SEGA Channel again...something that's so good I spend any and all free time playing it, full of ingenuity and fun.

I know there are plenty of other people like me, and I know that almost all of the people who have been down since day one on this know the deal...so the least we can do is try to step up and improve the community aspect of it...set an example for the others...and don't let disrespect ruin this gift.

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Thats an excellent point, especially here recently, i can only assume it's due to the flood of new users to MTA that don't yet know the difference between cheating and skill. Thats why if i see people yelling "damn newb, don't you know anything" etc, I would never let them in BNS. While it can become tiring to explain lag a million times, by being persistant in the good treatment of newcomers we can help turn the community towards a more friendly first impression. I feel part of the reason a lot of people cheat is simply because they are looked down upon so much for being a "noob." I mean, for christs sakes, at one point everyone used the toilet for the first time...lmao, did your parents yell "you fucking noob, you missed! Are you stupid?" at you?

and btw, the sega channel pwned :shock:

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hehe... i never missed :P

lets look into the future a bit...

PEEPEE VER 0.9 !

"omg j00r peepee skillz OWN!"

"luck"

"omg j00 suxors j00 peepee cheat" ;P

*soiles himself out of laughter*

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I've passed this thread up for too long so I'll add something...

I do highly appreciate all the team's efforts. I have been around long enough to be granted admin on the officials and mod on these forums, so I'll help the team with all the power I have to make sure MTA stays the way it was meant to be. Hopefully I can delete the lameass "You guys suck" "Release MTA NOW whores" and posts like that before you see them to shield your eyes :P I know that is very hurtful and very inconsiderate because you guys are doing this for free, and anyone who thinks thats bullshit can just shove it up their ass because its true.

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If you had read the last bit i offered a solution that was ignored so im gonna say it again in the hope the devs think this is a good idea.

A suggestion to accomdate for everyone is to release 2 versions of the mta game (yes i do know that means more work,but maybe less than making a new anticheat system).

One is a version that is completly unchecked, no crc, no trainer dection or anything (This can be used for LAN or basically anything that the 'hacking' people want to use if for, there would be no point going to a server if it had the no-crc checks if u wanted a proper game,it would be only for hacks).

The second version would have something(s) built into the depths of the code which make the 2 versions imcompatible with each other. As such people wouldnt bother hacking it anymore as they are given unrestriced access to the other version of the game. And they wouldnt be bothering the poeple who want to play normally as they would be in the 'cheat' servers.

Im sure that implementing this isnt easy and will take time. But im guessing the aim of mta team is to make the best, most enjoyable possible game they can. Hacks impact greatly on the enjoyment of mta to the point of making people stop playing the game.

The point basically is to give ppl a choice to hack or not. Only this time those two groups(hackers and non-hacks) are seperated into different servers.Any CONSTRUCTIVE critism i welcome.

this is my 'constructive' critisism.

kent has already mentioned 62184617923454871532475143571 times that it is NOT possible to allow mods in the current core. he said thatu also that they need to make the game more stable b4 allowin another 'cheat' version. aahh wtf:

I understand that you wish to enhance your experience of MTA with the modifications you develop / use, however this is only hurting your own experience, because we lose development time on future versions, on trying to determine if bugs that creep up are related to our core, or other untraceable isues (due to problems with modifications, cheating etc).

But I ask you to please refrain from doing so, until we can regulate such modifications, in a manner that improves the experience for everyone, and allows a quicker development time for the team

u havent realised thats mods and cheats dont work properly with mta. they cause crashes etc. so wtf is the point in releasin a modable version if mods dont even work

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i noticed that cheaters make desyncs

like u drive car n u see it jumpin and that jacked

CRAPPY CHEATERS!!!! 8):lol:

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Guest

What I find most creepy is the number of people who say and actually believe they're not cheating. Then at the end of the post they say something like. I only make some extra pedestrian walkways. I only upped the speed of my car a little that's not cheating right?

Or this guy that wrote this entire story about how he didn't cheat, and then said : 'See I don't cheat at all, I only use some of the internal cheatcodes. Those goddamn cheaters fuck it up for all of us.'

That last one made me stare at the screen, unable to think of anything I would post in reply :)

Ah well no idea why I posted this, I never post much. I must be bored :-P

**

On another note, would it be possible to make people who are on pause recognizable. You guys did a great job tackling alot of cheats already. This last most commonly used cheat would vanish I we could see when they're on pause mode. (You could just wait until they unpause and shoot then)

And good job, on this version. I love it, it has greatly improved. And apparantly you have already tackled the bandwidth problem. Great speed :), I can't wait for the patch. (I don't lag due to my broadband by my cpu gets on his knees due to the hundreds of kb/s of incoming packets :-P)

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Why are u guys at mta doing this mod?

because u want to right because u love to, well forget about all them haters and hackers and wannabes that cheat and reck everything(even if its extremly hard) and just do it for ur self! till you dont feel like doing it no more............ aint that ur only motivation;)

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In my closing though, I'd like to say this, IF you consider creators out there like vavle or sierra or whoever makde your favorite games "gods" of sort (gaming gods) then you must consider This people, the mta dev team saints. So be thankful we have them here now, because they wont always be here for us...

No, the developers of MTA are Gods. Creating Vice City to be played online was a dream/wish of mine before I even knew Multi Theft Auto existed. If there is anything I can do to help contribute and keep the development coming, I will surely do so. I've hardly ever donated for any causes, but this one... I have to say it's such an interest of mine that I would actually donate some cash.

Where can this be done and I will do it. To keep MTA alive, I would donate my soul! The developers of this mod are Gods. Enough said. I bow down to the MTA Gods in thanks and admiration! :D

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In my closing though, I'd like to say this, IF you consider creators out there like vavle or sierra or whoever makde your favorite games "gods" of sort (gaming gods) then you must consider This people, the mta dev team saints. So be thankful we have them here now, because they wont always be here for us...

No, the developers of MTA are Gods. Creating Vice City to be played online was a dream/wish of mine before I even knew Multi Theft Auto existed. If there is anything I can do to help contribute and keep the development coming, I will surely do so. I've hardly ever donated for any causes, but this one... I have to say it's such an interest of mine that I would actually donate some cash.

Where can this be done and I will do it. To keep MTA alive, I would donate my soul! The developers of this mod are Gods. Enough said. I bow down to the MTA Gods in thanks and admiration! :D

All the MTA team wants is support. They don't take ANY cash donations. It's amazing that people will do stuff like this for no money at all, not even a single donation.

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Heh. Anyway, mind that 0.4.x is based on the 0.3 core.

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All the MTA team wants is support. They don't take ANY cash donations. It's amazing that people will do stuff like this for no money at all, not even a single donation.

i gess thats bcuz, if sum1 gives a donation, theyll be like:

"hey, i gave u $10, mta shud be realeased by now cuz of the funding"

"i gave u $10, give me a beta version"

etc

thats my gess anyway...

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true talidan i also respect the mta team for all of their hard work on the mod i have been here sincg gta 3:mta 0.3 and have stayed right through to this present day with vc versions too mta team good job! ;)

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i gess thats bcuz, if sum1 gives a donation, theyll be like:

"hey, i gave u $10, mta shud be realeased by now cuz of the funding"

"i gave u $10, give me a beta version"

etc

thats my gess anyway...

And there would also be in-team problems, such as the fact that some members can afford to spend more time on it than others, and then there's the problem of proving how long they've worked on it, etc.

Also, I can bet that Rockstar will want a piece of it too via license fees, and basing all of your income on donations is a very unpredictable / unreliable business model.

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