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Vicer/Spitfire

Some questions to the oldies (Original community members)

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For crying out loud, you two. He asked for a list of the first FIVE OR SO first gangs. What's the whole 'omg repcte' debate for? I gave him my answer, others gave him slightly different answers, but all in all he's asking for FACT, not if they had historic meaning or shit. If it bothers you so much I'll just say it here, add it to the wiki or whatever the fuck you're fighting about.

VCP won the 0.2 tournament by winning against every single gang. Some time after VCP grew much larger, and of-course conflicts arose. At the end of one of those VCP split to VCP and ULK, leaded by Ransom and DeathB. Through time, VCP slowly gone smaller, much like other 'oldie' gangs, while ULK became quite large, and was one of the best gangs around for a long long time. ULK went through the same getting-smaller process eventually, so it's safe to call it 'oldie' now too.

THERE. HAPPY? I bet I'll get flamed now for calling you 'small' and 'old'.

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To blackdragon:

If you havent caught on, this is about zircon thinking that the original gangs dont deserve any special mention in the wiki.

To zircon:

Perhaps you arent familiar with the definitions of pioneer. In this case:

2. one who is first or among the earliest in any field of inquiry, enterprise, or progress

Everyone except you in this topic seems to have a pretty good understanding of who the pioneers are. The list is not biased, but its not fair to include a gang just cause some guy started it and it never actually became anything, thats all I mean by surviving. Anyhow, yes you are right, pioneer is considered synonymous to old and respected by many, as I mentioned in the latter post. There is a certain respect for the pioneers most people exhibit (not you apparently).

If you are questioning where the line is drawn, I think you'll find a very definitive timespan between those pioneers and the other older gangs. If I recall correctly, Blokker or another team member made the original wiki post that included those pioneers, and I'm sure they didnt have any bias, they only wanted to mention the ones that started and survived.

We can have it your way, but throw a starting date next to each gang and it'll have the same effect.

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well, the forum was ugly and took 3 minutes to load, we were all thrilled to see a car move that was being controlled by someone else, and odie's stuntpark was a regular fixture for a lot of players. I'm sure a lot of us could sense that it was the start of something big, even at its primitive state.

Personally, this was the first forum I ever actually registered to post in (even after lurking for a while)

the forum wasn't ugly! i seem to be the only prson who liked it

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The old MTAVC skin or an even older one? I only registered in 2004 :D

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So then, most of this topic is opinion? It might not be.

BlackDragon was talking about the fact side of this topic,

which was stating the first Five or so gangs,

that question's answer relys on fact,

well, who's to say?

there is no way we can record every little

clan that ever formed, some are ones without tags,

and only the members knew it existed,

thus making it almost impossible to track and document the formation

of all the Clans.

So then you're gonna say "well then only talk about the well-known clans"

That's where opinion comes in.

And where theres opinion there's debate.

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To zircon:

Perhaps you arent familiar with the definitions of pioneer. In this case:

2. one who is first or among the earliest in any field of inquiry, enterprise, or progress

Everyone except you in this topic seems to have a pretty good understanding of who the pioneers are. The list is not biased, but its not fair to include a gang just cause some guy started it and it never actually became anything, thats all I mean by surviving. Anyhow, yes you are right, pioneer is considered synonymous to old and respected by many, as I mentioned in the latter post. There is a certain respect for the pioneers most people exhibit (not you apparently).

If you are questioning where the line is drawn, I think you'll find a very definitive timespan between those pioneers and the other older gangs. If I recall correctly, Blokker or another team member made the original wiki post that included those pioneers, and I'm sure they didnt have any bias, they only wanted to mention the ones that started and survived.

We can have it your way, but throw a starting date next to each gang and it'll have the same effect.

Well, for the first leg of your post, I am perfectly familiar with what the term pioneer means. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. My entire previous post dealt with your usage of it and why I think it's a just yet another excuse to prioritize your list of gangs and put them in front of all the others.

Yes, I am questioning where the line is drawn, because one person can't determine that, and no, there isn't a "definitive timespan" between the "pioneers and the other older gangs," unless you think a couple of months over the course of three years makes any difference.

No, a team member did not put that in the Wikipedia article, and it doesn't matter if one did or not. Perhaps you should read the discussion to see why it was removed.

I am perfectly happy with listing the gangs chronologically, but I am not happy with the first few being labeled as "pioneers" or "old and respected," because that's simply a matter of opinion.

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Spitfire was looking for the oldest gangs/first gangs first 5. There was no mention of 'pioneers' or 'respected' gangs anywhere.

Therefore questions have been answered so im leaving it here.

:arrow: Locked

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Okay zircon ill let you have the last word since you always must have it

Oops ;)

I have a good sense of who the pioneers were because I was around at that time, and those listed were the first gangs that set off and became something, but I agree, go with the list then. Same difference.

p.s. you asked me "What exactly is it that these gangs have pioneered", thats why I wrote the definition for you

p.p.s. everyone cant read. Its the oldest ALIVE gangs he wanted. BD's list is wrong. Mine is probably right.

Ok, end topic.

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