LukeS

I just find it strange how you fail to understand the concept of developing a mod for GTA because you love GTA - judging by the interview that's not something you understand, and calling everyone elses' efforts "immitations" is an insult to every single other mod imo.

On the subject of originality, isn't it worth noting that there's a massive gap in what MTA covers at the moment by only allowing racing? People are trying to fill that gap, because people want that gap filled. You may well have plans to fill it yourselves, but you're taking a while getting there - and if people believe they can do a better job, or have a different goal - then why the hell not? People want to play multiplayer GTA, I want to play multiplayer GTA - why the hell would anyone want to develop a multiplayer mod for another game therefore? Or another mod in general infact. You simply can't tell people to go mod another game because 'this patch is covered' by yourselves. MTA keep on sort of marketing themselves as being professional, so it's a shame to see arguments cropping up such as this one where people are told "Go mod something else" essentially. I don't want this to be a competition, I have nothing against MTA - but people on both sides are making things very difficult by, well, spouting rubbish - or inflating egos.

I'd say it was more like 72.36% actually, but it's close enough. On the subject of teams joining forces: Total different approaches in each, plus GTAT is delphi i think, GTA:MP and Rumble are both c++, but editing memory is completely disimilar to what Blue is/will be. Totally correct, there's the traditional trainerish methods of making multiplayer and then there's code injection and using the game's internal classes. The fact is, both these approaches result in different results but need different people on the team. GTAMultiplayer relies on it's team having knowledge of how the game functions, and the ability to find out how the game handles X, Y or Z. Most of this is done in x86 assembly. A trainerish multiplayer need not ever go near assembly code. So teams merging would probably result in a lot of useless people, basically. Hm that explains why GTAT is that laggy. There are speed differences between Delphi code and C++, but not significant enough for you to simply deem one as laggy because of it. The real difference is in the way the movement is handled, most multiplayer mods are currently relying on teleporting, at least on a regular basis, simply moving co-ordinates. From the looks of things, Blue also does this, you shouldn't really expect any multiplayer mod to be totally smooth, because it just wont happen. But, there's usually small improvements that can be made. Using WriteProcessMemory API to change a variable however, is significantly slower than being inprocess where it can be done through assembly. Netcode does of course also make a difference, but the modern trend in multiplayer mods seems to be RakNet, seems to be the accepted standard. But these aspects have to do with the code its written in. Delphi isn't really good for such projects imo. Delphi is fine, but it depends on how you're doing it. I don't know whether or not gtaT is injected inprocess, or whether it relies on memory API, so I can't really say. Comparing programming languages is silly, always has been. Delphi has limitations, but not many. C++ is certainly faster when compiled, but it's not for Rapid Application Development, they've all got their pros and their cons. C++ is probably a better choice in the long run for a multiplayer mod, because it can handle DirectX with ease when inprocess. No but experience is facts, and the most sayings come from experience and then becomes facts eventually. Intelligent people don't need experience. They don't need to make mistakes in order to know what will happen. You know without experience what will happen if you jump in front of a bus. Everyone makes mistakes. Intelligence comes in two forms, you're either knowledgeable, or you have the ability to solve problems (mathematical or other) quickly and well. Common sense is really neither of those things. Intelligent people can make some stupid decisions at times, it doesn't mean they're not a genius nor are they not intelligent.

I'm not especially clued up on MTA's bugs as I've never spent that long playing it, but I'll point out some faults in what you've said about VC:MP. I really don't think you can comapre the two, they're both different. MTA themselves will admit that MTA 0.5 is a poor system, VC:MP is closer to the techniques used in "MTA Blue" in that it actually works with the game, it doesn't just change things.

VMP actually closed down completely, then I started GTA:C, it wasn't technically a merge, but a good deal of people came over anyway. Then a handful of the GTA:C people came over to SA-MP. StAnToN was kicked from the team and did leak files (well, tried). The VMP team and the SA-MP team are a long way apart, infact there's only 2 people who were on both, so it's not exactly been straight merges. Anyway, a little more information: VMP used a method that would never have worked, the lag was so bad that I might as well have sent my new co-ordinates in the post.

Yea, anyone who's been in our IRC would know all about them. Just for reference, all of these screens xanni posted are just from our site (loosely dropped into the root, since image database in the MySQL isnt working just yet). gtaconnection.net/gtac.screen.1.JPG gtaconnection.net/gtac.screen.2.JPG gtaconnection.net/gtac.screen.3.JPG gtaconnection.net/gtac.screen.4.JPG Mad_Boy: Ive never seen you in our IRC, you arn't spying are you?

You never got my permission to do anything...

Xanni: Dont you think we're the ones who decide when the screens come, theres a few things, just bits and bobs which we took when testing (not proper testing, just making sure sync between client and game was working properly) on our webspace, but thats about it for now. Anyone is welcome to look at those we uploaded, but its nothing too interesting (yet). Jon: Cheers, its actually done with the SCM that, not necesserily the method we're gona use, but its certainly something we're considering seriously.

Xanni, you're an idiot. Not actually chat, but its the box where it belongs. I could have made the screen smaller but I couldnt be bothered, PM me if it annoys you its so big.

When you've made a working stable multiplayer mod, then say that. Good luck to gtaT, no matter how many letters of the alphabet they go through.

That kind of an attitude annoys me, so ill correct you: - Firstly, a DirectX hook is not actually needed, theyre are alternative solutions, though we are not yet certain on which method we will be using, our team knows more than enough about directx, directx hooking is a completely different matter, and such methods as proxy dlls cannot be achieved with VB, therefore we will have to seriously consider the alternative solutions before employing a C++ DLL or Delphi. - SCM Code Injection is something that we ARE doing, our modules are already being programmed to do this. I think its YOU who doesnt know what theyre talking about. So next time, why dont you think before you post some shit like that.

No offence was intended by my comment, not so sure about xanni's though. I meant it though, theres no point in having two clone mods, thats my point, so the more different we can make it, the better in my eyes, so im open to suggestions. Thanks anyways slush, 0.4 looks like its gona be difficult to challenge.

Aye, deathmatch will be on the plate, but we plan on spending a lotta time on some co-operative game modes, hopefully being able to sync some of the games AI things and create multiplayer versions of some missions etc. an MTA clone would be a dissapointment.

Oh well, since someone started this topic up I might as well add my two cents. GTA:C is a mod in progress, aimed at GTA:VC and the GTA:LC mod multiplayer, id tell you some features, but most stuff is still indefinite, and we'll be releasing feature lists on our site first. The team has grown immensely, and is now about 10 or more team members. The site is still unfinished by the way, so dont go complaining about its lack of information, ill simply ignore you. Still, at the current rate of progress, the first tests should be taking place in a few weeks. Flame this topic if you want, ill ignore you, since I dont come here often anyways. Regards, Smithers. Programmer. GTA: Connection. EDIT: Note, VMP is long gone, come on people, you should leave this realm once in a while just to check up on the real world and the competition.

Ok, after being accused of flooding the MySQL server and bringing it down earlier today, ive now decided that Im going to call this quits. Dont ask why, it just involves IJs and a long conversation. So, Blokker and Cray... sorry. (and btw, i didnt hack the server )

Point taken, respect is a wide thing. But I personally, along with lots of other people respect people who help people. Like who doesnt respect care workers, teachers etc. Blokker signed up on our forums... but hasnt started an argument yet, which is a good thing.

Ok, this is aimed purely at you blokker. As you wish. I think that opinion is wrong, youre trying to say we need to learn our place, whats that supposed to mean, go to our own boards? Admittedly, I have realised that. Although its not ALL the critics. MrBump for one, has tried to make the picture from MTA that was found on our site an embarassment for VMP, its not, it was there, it doesnt mean were making MTA all over again, it doesnt mean its a fake... It means nothing Are you trying to say we give up, if so, then thats really selfish. Were not making promises, were not saying were gona be around long, were saying: WERE TRYINGNothing more. Ok, and if you would care to take a look at my post count, cray annoyed me about something I may have taken the wrong way, thats cleared up, other than that, youll find that I, the most active person in the VMP development has not actually said anything here other than today. Aggressive, not really, sorry if it came accross that way. Selfish, NOT AT ALL, im after the MTA team and community to stop flaming my team, is that selfish? Not really, im doing it in the TEAMs best interest. This could be quote of the year (smithers goes away to add it into his gtaforums signature). Its completely wrong, helping people has EVERYTHING to do with respect. Its not something that you can debate. Its what respect is all about, you help people, and by helping them, you gain respect. Yes, so hows about you start respecting everyone, and not just the MTA lovers among us. Ok, all to help MTA players, I know for a fact you could help more than you do. But you dont, you hide away your memory addresses, and take them from others, such as the memory address topic @ gtaforums, which cray told me off for not giving some memory addresses in!!!!! HOW many memory addresses does MTA give out... remember. Thats pretty irrelevant. None of us are getting paid. Im a student. Microsoft = IrrelevantIm asking you to support people, if you can help, help, if not, then support, provide positive comments. If we disagree with you, then dont take it the wrong way. If we make a mistake, dont make an incredible story of it (like MrBump, who is one who I will never respect). The fact is: This argument got ended in my last post, why are you continuing it? Good, So I expect you to reply please. Thanks. Smithers.

Ok, having read your reply at our forums. Thats settled. No-one seems to like stanton, youve all got reasons for it, so thats fair enough. Me and him have disagreed on things before. I dont know about this being a contender for competition with MTA, its too early to tell, with us using different ways of moving things (such as player/car) to MTA, things are very different, and may not work out. I hope they do. Thanks. Smithers.

Cray at the VMP forums: Now that, i have no idea what its about. The screen is no longer there, infact, i think youre being real (censored) bout this, so i posted a reply, and im gona put this here too, because I think it applies more than anything to this topic. My very applicable to this forum reply: I had nor the time nor the will to rewrite that for here, but i did think it was applicable. Now, Id like to think that people could get on, being fellow programmers and all without all of this rubbish thats being going on in this topic. Our multiplayer is currently WORKING with syncronised players, and some animations, for 2 players, and we are working on getting this to 16 players. It works differently to MTA, we have a video on out site (there is no chat, because its not made yet, and no other fancy stuff yet), but it shows that it works. And for that, I think we deserve at least a little respect. MORE IMPORTANTLY: Before you criticise our one broken image, I think you should realise that the links to TWO of your videos in the news are broken. Thank-you. Smithers. Lead Programer at VMP (Before you criticise this, i know VB, C++ and PHP)