Zircon

Why? That would only promote spawn wars with that class. thats what has made mta so FUN. having that option, to do the spawn war, or to do the VC war. what could it hurt? just put it in a secluded area. It would just be Prawn Island all over again...Like I said, spawn wars are fun, but they do get repetitive. Randomizing the spawns to prevent them is the original intention of this thread. It would really change gameplay for the better, I think. It will never happen in 0.5... but it's still a good idea. =)

Why? That would only promote spawn wars with that class.

I suggested all spawns being randomized a couple days ago, I think. I'm all for this. Spawn wars are fun, but let's face it... they can get really, really repetitive after a while. Ransom's map, for example, would allow gameplay to spread out across Vice City, and not be limited to just one place.

Wrong.

Because VC DM will always be the most popular game mode. I don't really care about Vice City Stunt - I got bored with it after 10 minutes of play. Oh wow, nitro, RC cars, and more ramps... nothing mind boggling, sorry.GTA3 MTA is really buggy at its current state (I could name tons of annoying glitches here, but I won't), and the only map that's worth playing on, Shoreside Vale, is 10x smaller (yes I might be exaggerating here, but it is pretty small in comparasion) than Vice City's map. The classes are a good addition, but that's basically the only improvement I can spot, besides unlocking the new island, of course. VC Stunt is boring, and GTA3 MTA is somewhat fun, but it doesn't even come close to VC deathmatch, which was totally sucked in this version. Funny you should say that, because the only alternative to jumping/crouching in 0.5 is switching weapons, which is a glitch. =)

I disagree... leave jumping and crouching out and remove the abilty to switch any time during the shooting animation. That would really make more sense. You can vote on it in Nutz's topic.

It is possible, however, to prevent crouching while firing with the heavy flag, which was added to the stubby in 0.5.

Therefore leaving in the ability to switch before the shooting animation even starts?Like Prontera said, a +5 interval past the animation end for the switch time would allow the reloading animation to finish properly on everyone's screen. Otherwise (if you switch before that), you're going to warp all over the place. Doing that for every weapon (as well as disabling crouching and jumping with the shotgun) will make gameplay very balanced. I agree with most of the points here, but I don't see why everyone is so against removing simulated warp from weapons completely...

The cop shotgun will just take the place of the stubby if it's removed or actually balanced (as in no crouching, jumping, or switching). It's still a powerful weapon. So that won't solve anything unless the same is done to the cop shotgun (balanced or removed). But why remove a weapon when it's perfectly possible to balance it and even the playing field even further?

Nutz: - I do agree that the M60 needs to be fixed. - Yes, reducing damage on any weapon is pointless if you're intending to balance gameplay. - If the spas 12 is brought back, then it would need some major adjustments. It's far too overpowered as it is. - I think all spawns should be randomized to prevent spawn wars. KFG... I don't know if that would balance gameplay. That's kind of what we're aiming for here.

What do you mean there's nothing wrong with it?At its current state... M60: 15 points of damage per hit, slower firing rate, shorter range, less ammo available overall. M4: 14 points of damage per hit, faster firing rate, longer range, more ammo available overall. ...therefore making the M60 totally obsolete. The mexican is useless now. So yes, that needs to be fixed. In additon to the damage being increased, I also recommend giving the M60 more ammo (as people have said here) and bringing molotovs back at spawn. The stubby needs major changes, but I think what I outlined in my topic would make it balanced enough. Remove the ability to switch before the shooting/reloading animation has finished, in addition to disabling crouching/jumping, which has already been done. Seeing as how it would lack mobility then and still have such a short range, increasing the damage (above the default value) would be a good idea. Do the same to the cop shotgun (although don't increase the damage, since it has such a long range), as it would probably be the next alternative to stubby whores. Prontera also made this suggestion, but I highly recommend it: set the switch time 5 or so intervals after the end of the animation on all weapons. This means that no one can switch during/after the reloading animation, making it impossible to create a warp effect. FYI, the spas 12 was originally taken out in 0.4 because it was thought to be overpowered. It was disallowed in gang wars, and most players frowned upon usage of it. Some servers even kicked people for having it in their inventory. I don't mind it being brought back, but it won't make a lot of people happy. Though for some reason I seriously doubt the MTA team will do anything about our suggestions here, since they don't care about gameplay anymore... I do agree that 0.5's lag is horrible.I haven't lagged this badly in every server I went to since the release of 0.4 (the version with the bandwidth bug). This really needs to be addressed, I think.

It's actually: 0.3: Only 3/4 of a clip. 0.4: Less damage (30 per hit instead of 43) - molotovs also removed. 0.5: Less damage (15 per hit instead of 30). And no, the MTA devs aren't "stubby fans and M60 haters." They just don't care about Vice City deathmatch... exactly why they made such vast improvements in stunt mode and GTA3's Shoreside Vale map, yet ruined VC DM.

Gameplay doesn't revolve around the stubby. Having to stand still for a few seconds after shooting, however, will allow the animation to end properly on the other person's screen, rather than switching weapons and running to create a warp effect because the animation is still playing on the other end.That's exactly why it's an abusive glitch. Not only can you cancel the entire shooting animation at the moment, as you could with jumping (even though it probably won't sync properly), but you can also easily create warp in between your shots, making you insanely difficult to hit if you do it right. This is also the reason why switching with a shotgun weapon is NOT useful in SP during a gun fight.

The only way the gameplay would "really really" suck is if the MTA team leaves an abusive glitch open, one which can clearly be fixed, and takes all others out.GF: I'm within my rights to complain, I think.

Well, it is.

On a side note, the M60's damage has been halved in 0.5, dealing only 15 points per hit.The M4 deals 14 points per hit, and with more ammo available and a better range, the M60 has become obsolete. How much lower can VC DM possibly go? Nutz: I'm not the one who tried to "balance" the weapons in 0.5 and failed miserably.

Because you prefer one glitch over another.If switching and crouching was left out, yet jumping was allowed, you'd hate it. The only time I would see people warp (provided that they aren't switch or crouch glitching with a shotgun weapon) is if I or another player is experiencing major packet loss. That rarely happens for me, however, since I'm usually in the 200-300 ping range (at least before 0.5 released). Wrong."The rest" are for all stubby glitches being taken out. If they love jumping so much, then they'd want switching/crouching and jumping put back in.

It doesn't take any genius to figure it out...0.4.x weapon.mta: StubbyShotgun INSTANT_HIT 15.0 250 750 1 120 -1.0 -1.0 -1.0 -1.0 0.55 -0.02 0.13 buddy 14 50 15 14 56 15 56 279 -1 20040 4 We see here that value X, "point in anim where we can breakout of anim/attack and run away," which controls how early in the shooting animation you can switch weapons, is set to 56. This prevents you from switching weapons before the animation loop end, which is also set to 56. This is why switching before the stubby reloading animation played was impossible in 0.4.x. 0.5 weapon.mta: StubbyShotgun INSTANT_HIT 15.0 250 750 1 60 -1.0 -1.0 -1.0 -1.0 0.55 -0.02 0.13 buddy 14 50 15 14 56 15 11 279 -1 200 4 Now, look at value X. It's set to 11 instead, which is lower than value R, the loop animation start, set at 14. This makes it possible to switch before the shooting animation even plays. How do we fix this? Simply change 11 back to 56, like it was in 0.4.x. How it should be: StubbyShotgun INSTANT_HIT 15.0 250 750 1 60 -1.0 -1.0 -1.0 -1.0 0.55 -0.02 0.13 buddy 14 50 15 14 56 15 56 279 -1 200 4 This line would make it impossible to crouch while firing and jump or switch after firing. Don't believe me? Put that in your weapon.dat, start up SP, get a stubby, and test away. Sorry eAi, but whoever was in charge of editing the weapon stats didn't know what he was doing.

So the team eliminated jumping, but in turn allowed switching at any point during the fire animation? What's this "balanced stubby" feature I was reading about just a few days before the 0.5 release? This isn't balanced... People are just switching and creating that dreaded warp effect, very similiar to what crouch glitching causes. It's the 0.3 robber style all over again, something that the team ridded of in 0.4, and now it's back. Why patch one glitch up and leave another one open? Was this intentional? If so, then tell me why right now, because I don't get it. Leave the stubby alone, fix all of its glitches, or take it out of the game. This is getting old.

It's unplayable for me. A lot of ULKs feel the same... We played 0.3r2 tonight and it was the best fun we've had in a while. No offense intended. Sort out the problems and people might feel differently.

I agree.Stubby jumping is disabled but switching is allowed... that's like endorsing switch glitching. I don't like. I didn't notice that M60 damage was reduced, but that's not good, either. About the second point, yes, I am lagging horribly now. I'm on 56k, sure, but my ping is much higher than it was before. When it's not constantly spiking, it's pushing 400 (used to be in the 200-250 range). I've tried several servers and no luck. I can't play the game like that. It's pretty stable for me, but not any more so than 0.4. The client does look awesome, though... I'll give you that.

Okay... DK is added. I think that a lot of gangs don't play GTA3 MTA. I play it sometimes, but admittedly not as much as MTA: VC. It's just not as popular. I thought that having one base per island for every gang would create problems, though. Sure, it makes sense seeing as none of the islands are linked in one server, but in turn, it makes less bases available to other gangs throughout LC. If anyone is against this, just tell me... I know that we're running out of bases to pick.

CE and NS added to the Vice City map.

Yes, but that doesn't include the terminal, which is a spawn point.

CE, PCP, and SIS added to the maps.